I just think that the game would benefit if that long-winded high sec connection was cut off.
Low sec wouldn’t be the only allowed way either. You also have Pochven, wormholes and null sec if you wanted to fly from one region of high sec space to another. All of those connections have in common that it would make travel between two high sec islands non-trivial. This boosts local trade hubs and enables opportunities for haulers to fly between those trade hubs where others dare not to take such risks.
I just mentioned 4 alternatives. Just none of them ‘safe HS space’ unless you somehow find a HS to HS wormhole.
If you are not a HS player, why do you act so afraid of non-HS space in this discussion that you don’t even consider it an alternative?
All of these are low sec compared to the high sec connection. There is literally no difference because all of these routes are dangerous and unsuitable for a number of ships.
Because I want enjoyable gameplay. Just because I am not a HS player does not mean I need HS to be annoying and frustrating. Quite the contrary, I want HS to be convenient so that I have less hassle when I go there to do shopping trips or do things with other chars.
Have you considered the various strategies players have been using to fly these ‘unsuitable ships’ in dangerous space?
It’s trivially easy to just put your freighter on auto pilot through high security space, but such ships are sometimes used outside HS too. People have found ways to do so.
Also you do not need to move ships across such dangerous boundaries to play on either side of a boundary. You could simply buy an extra ship on the other side, boosting trades on the other side as well if you don’t wish to risk running through low sec space.
Sure, titan bridges for freighters. That’s something lots of people can do. And so enjoyable. Great. I remember the times when I was shipping Ihub upgrades that way from Agil into Immensea back in 2011. That was great.
As someone who also does shopping trips to HS I’m surprised that you are OK with the route (outside HS) towards HS, but not when the route goes from HS through non-HS to other HS space.
What is the difference?
I’m well aware of trading.
I think the game would have much bigger trade opportunities if the HS trade hubs weren’t connected through HS routes.
Also trade does not cross regional boundaries. Hauling does.
I think the point a few us are making is that the game would be healthier overall for traders if there was more intra-empire trade in dispersed markets rather than inter-empire trade centralized in one hub.
The difference? I know how much of a pain it is to move things around low sec. Just the other day I spent over an hour to prepare a few contracts and items to move from Jita to the south. Just preparation, not even moving. The moving takes yet more time even by JF. Since I know how much of pain this is, I do not need more of that anywhere else. It’s unrewarding, it’s time-wasting and it gives no appropriate benefits.
Dafuq? Trading has to cross boundaries to take place.
Nothing stops you from doing that. You can already try to source all materials needed for building things and selling them in one empire. You can even save cost by doing that.
My opinion is, however, that this central hub allows and strengthens all the other hubs and makes them possible in the first place. No one would stock places like Keberz, Stacmon, Orvolle, Sasta or Azer if there was no convenient place to get the market items at affordable prices and in a reliable fashion.
I can see how it can be annoying if transporting goods from Jita to the south also means you have to cross through low sec before you reach Amarr space.
Wouldn’t it be great if Amarr had it’s own healthier trade hub that you could cut Jita out of your trip completely?
I think we could reach such a situation if we were to cut up HS into four islands and gave HS players good reasons to live in all of them. We’d have healthier secondary trade hubs where local players shop instead of moving to Jita for their shopping, which means a less dominant Jita.
Imagine how much time you’d save on your trade trips if you didn’t have to fly all the way north to Jita!
It would be great. And you know what? Before Niarja was cut, Amarr was a place where you could actually get almost all the things needed for this activity at reasonable prices. Since Niarja was cut, this is not the case anymore.
I do not need to imagine that because it’s not going to happen. What I do imagine, however, is that this crappy carved up high sec island cluster would be a huge pain because the 4 smaller hubs would inevitably lack certain items or resources all the time and I would have to travel to a number more different places to cobble together these needed items. I do not see anything great about this at all. This is not some negative-nancy thinking, it’s empirical evidenced by what happened to Amarr.
That you do not see that is amply clear to me because you don’t even see trading crossing boundaries or that certain ships are needed to do serious trading.
What you describe isn’t the act of trading, it’s the act of trading and hauling.
Trading without hauling is station trading. Or at best, paying someone else to do the hauling for you if you don’t undock.
The people crossing LS to reach other HS islands aren’t doing so as traders, they’re doing so as haulers. They might haul their own goods or someone else’s. They may even want to trade those goods on the other side. But they’re doing so as haulers.
Haulers cross the regional boundaries. Not traders. Could be a trader who is hauling their own goods, but he’s hauling when crossing the boundary, not trading.
Except players would notice these items are missing and huge profits can be made, and seed them. Right now it’s barely worthwhile because Dodixie is so close to Jita that if you do try to put some margin, someone else will quickly undercut you, or the customers will just go to Jita instead.
Yeah the end customer will pay more, but that’s going to bring more life to trading and make it easier for low-end traders to compete.
You really don’t see that these 2 are intertwined, do you? Without hauling, there’s no trading (try to trade something without getting it hauled to the market) and without trading there’s no hauling.
And yet, Dodi is doing just fine despite being so close to Jita and despite scarcity, while Amarr, which is further away now was suffering after Niarja’s cutoff and the scarcity.
EVE has various ships that are great for such smuggling. Blockade runners, Jump Freighters… even black ops battleships make great smugglers of high-value low-volume goods if cargo-expanded. And deep space transports too are pretty good for smuggling.
All of those ships work well outside HS space for hauling/smuggling. The tools exist already if CCP ever were to cut up HS into four islands.
Technically, yes, there are contraband items which will get you a fine from the empire faction if they scan your cargo and discover it. But those items are not relevant to game play. I just came across one ‘‘contraband’’ item in my hangar as I was hauling stuff – toxic waste – unless I am missing something, it is a completely uselss item in the game. You don’t need it for anything. So, they’re contraband in principle, but not for anything that matters.
What I meant was real contraband. Items that are in high deman by the market (i.e. players), but ‘‘illegal’’. So that one can make a career in EVE out of hauling them. There would be penalties to carrying them (loss of standing, fines, confiscation) in empire space, but if you successfully manage to pull it off the rewards would be great.
This was the first time I ever engaged you on these forums. This sentence doesn’t make any sense. Why would I be angry at you for losing my Leopard – unless the Trade Hub Camper is your alt?
PS. I still wouldn’t be angry as I don’t care that I lost it, and it was my own fault anyway.
