Nvm, pls close

PvP-Players will have the Problem of Tech3 Skill reskilling, which was at that time maybe feasable as it punished the use of the OP Tech 3 Cruisers, but since then other OP ships have been released which do not posses this Sp malus on death, even the Tech3 destroyers don’t, making the Tech3 cruiser SP loss a questionable thing IMO.

It’s a PvP game, “PvE Players” are idiots in denial.

Deniers are not part of the conversation.


The importance you put on sp/hour is your own doing.

I’ve been playing for nearly 10 years. Never once had a +5 implant in any character. You’ll be fine.

The sp loss on t3’s is dumb though. It’s just that ccp are having a hard time balancing them.


That’s because t3s, like caps, were pointless ship creep without a reason.


No. Most PVEers will fly expensive, blingy ships. Most PVPers will fly cheap, easy to replace ships. This is because PVP is where we go to have fun in an intensely competitive arena, whereas PVE is where we go to safely grind ISK. You have it completely backwards.

Or warp out in an insta-warping pod. This is only the case in nullsec or wormholes where bubbles would prevent you from warping, and if you’re in nullsec, pve comes at the price of being attacked any time.

You mean a permanent +5 to every character? Are you suggesting this as something only during events, or are you asking for a permanent change, irrespective of events?

If you are asking for it just during events, then no, that would be stupid, because it would mean that dev’s would have to deactivate all implants for all characters during the event, then reactivate it after, which is pointless and defeats the whole reasons for the event in the first place, which is to drive player numbers up and have a more active player base and community.

If you want it to be permanent, then again, no, because it doesnt have anything to do with this event, and you just want to skill more with less risk.

Yes, that is the RISK you take when flying with +5s. You can skill more, but have more to lose.

It’s called risk and reward.

The skill loss has to do with the VERSATILITY of tech 3 cruisers.

It’s the same reason why CCP refused to let T3 cruisers into abyssal sites. They are STILL, far better than most cruisers.

Except that EVE is always PVP, all the time. There is no staying away from it. If you are undocked, you will eventually engage in PVP whether you like it or not. This has always been consistent, and CCP has never downplayed this.

Nothing about this is inconsistent. CCP wants players to engage more, because they know players will have to engage eventually. Events like these only help to speed up this eventuality.

You are the one who is greatly confused about this game, my friend. And maybe your sexuality too.


Also, without I.plants we wouldnt have gems like this.

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i talk about skilling, if you want to skill with max timeefficency then yes if you have to replace imps it is more expensive to fly that, you are right that PvE players in general fly more blingy ships tho… not that it has any point in this discussion…

yeah and what is your point here? nvm

permanent +5

honestly yes, that is exactly what I want. That is my whole Point there, i dont see the point in having to skill slower to do PvP in contrast to PvE

yes they are, but it seems like they gave pretty much up on the concept with T3 Destroyers and Tri-ships ect, and I just question why t3 Cruiser and not the others, too. If CCP says versatility and low SP/ to skill them first, im fine with that, as they are not my main point.

EVE always has the posibility to be PvP, thats right, even in High-Sec, but whats the point in that, how often is the normal High-Mission-Runner killed and podded in contrast to a PvP Pilot, its the amount of times you would have to replace the Imps that make a difference.

I actually like the Event, I dont think I made a point in saying its pointless or anything.

Honestly, what is the point in that comment? Are you feeling better now and think your argument sounds better cause you questioned my sexuallity? Sorry but at this point I greatly ask myself if its even worth to comment on you because I don’t think sth like that should be in any discussion, you are allowed to have a different opinion and even think my arguments are stupid, but this should have no place here, sry but with this I just think of you as an idiot honestly.

Kinda true, but only if you have a certain amount of SP, yes if you played the game long enough the difference between +2% dmg or so on some skills to put them to LVL5 is not rly that much, but if you are new, ther is a big difference between beeing able to fly the ship or not, and for that you need SP, too. Also whats the problem with like SP, I mean who doesn’t? Yes SP/hour or better SP are sth I like very much, and yes you could say then pay for it, point taken, its not like I say as it is, it is unacceptable or ruins the game, its just I would like to have both, the +5 and the possibility to do PvP without fearing to loose my POD/with +5 Imps. If you say that, in your opinion, as it is today is better than what I suggest, then I can just say i like my opinion better(who doesn’t like his own opinion better) but I can accept yours.

again, yes, if you have an relatively longgoing Char, you can say who cares, but if you are new or just like thos SP, it does matter. Also when you started the game there was less stuff to skill (and yes I know now SP are way more often gifted by CCP), for me its a question i can in some cases support, like I had to do this too so why should others have it better now, yes I get that, but i still think most of the time if we can make sth better in the futur then why not, and yes i think no skilling Imps would be better, if you like them or just dont care that is also a viable option.

Simpler solution is to just remove all “learning” implants as well as remove the atrribute boosts from pirate sets.

If CCP could figure out what to replace them with in the LP stores (apparently thats important) they would already be gone.


Or you could stop being OBSESSED WITH MIN MAX and use +4s like everyone else?


If you get rid of learning implants then a favourite crutch / excuse for not PvP’ing is removed.

“I can’t PvP because of my expensive implants” … just get rid of them all.


sure yould, but again ist depending on what you skill 40-80M isk, too. its not like its nothing if you lose them often.

I like that point, also the one with “I cant join cause i just jumped into my skilling char” …

Pixel Cowardice has a million faces and twice as many lame excuses.

Those players have no business in the game and will eventually quit. There is no point changing the game to suit people who are going to quit anyway.

The devs learned that the hard way with wardecs, they nerfed the ■■■■ out of the game, made structure ownership an “alt task” and it didn’t help retention at all because ultimately the care bears want to play house and get wardeced anyway, then they rage quit when their house gets blown up.


I focus my training and have 2 +4 implants forthe skills im training.

Okay, fair enough.

If you’re fighting in hi or low, you always have the option to warp out, and unless you had a stroke, you should be able to. Capsules instawarp.

If you’re fighting in null or wh, then you shouldn’t be in a position where you care about losing your implants. The whole point of null and wh is that it is dangerous, and you can be killed anywhere, anytime. Even during PVE.

You dont have to.

If you’re in hisec or low, you can instawarp your capsule any time. The risk is as high as you want it to be.

In null and wh, you are at risk of losing your pod, whether you are pve or pvp.

So the risk doesnt really change between pvp and pve. The only risk that does, is whether you go for +5 or +3.

Why not just T3 cruisers? The thing about asking why, is that you need to have a compelling reason. Otherwise, the opposite of why not is just as compelling.

How often are pvp pilots losing duels and getting podded when they wanted to? Isnt that very low, too? If you are getting into a wardec or duel, that you wanted to instigate, and also wanted to save your pod, wouldnt you say that it’s more common for people like that to warp out, than it is for say an AFK miner being ganked?

That was a joke, but okay. Atleast it gave you a good Avenue to deflect on the argument that I did provide.

What new player is concerned with spending 120 million isk on implants? I’ve never met a new player who had enough isk to do that, or who could affordably lose that and replace it without concern or problems.

The new players who do, usually just inject.

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You say ‘its OK for me because I’m a vet and i already have the sp’

But what if i told you that not only did I never use +5 implants, the vast majority of my pvp is done in tech1 ships (and frigates at that.) and when i first started pvp’ing i had less sp than a new starter out the box does today. It was a time when tech1 ships weren’t as powerful as they were today and a time where t3 cruisers were more powerful than today.

We didn’t have skilling sprees either or sp handouts for DDOS attacks. Training is faster now than ever before and somehow player retention is worse.

This isn’t a bitter vet whine, I’m just telling you that, without a shadow of a doubt, new player retention has sweet ■■■■ all to do with sp/hour or getting access to the blingy ships.

All that matters is finding engaging content at their level. Harder to do today than before yes. But the answer is not to fast track everyone into bling ships and capitals. We tried that and it was ■■■■.


Use citadels to switch to a clean clone during PvP, and back to +5 attribute clone when not.

Also, maybe you should check out my series on everything SP related.


What a load of crap.

already done:

(was originally 8)

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