Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

I think we need to appoint an expert, and you’re the thread creator. I’ll be happy to ask your opinion on the subject.

If not, I’m sure the other Valerie would be able to tell us what the most appropriate cake for today might be.

Well, I wouldn’t know what kind of cake they would want but you could try Bundt cake?

It would certainly keep them small at least. Any particular flavor good for the season? Or at least the season wherever you are.

Indeed. But the move away from a single centralized military body into a more
traditional feudal model complicates that.

So if we break it down, a member of PIE is representative of the Excubitoris Chapter of the Sacred Throne Order. A Paladin Ordinary of the Order answers to PIE Command, which consists of active duty Paladin Commanders and the Co-Chapter Masters Gaven Lok’ri and Shaikar Kazari. As Chapter Masters, myself and Chapter Master Shaikar answer to the leadership of the Sacred Throne Order as a whole, which in turn answers to the Empress.

We certainly are self-funded, rather than a part of the Empires centralized payroll, but in part that is part of our obligation as Amarr Soldiers in the feudal portion of the Amarr Military. Imagine that instead of us paying taxes and having some of those taxes spent to fund us after travelling through the bureaucracy, we pay those taxes by directly maintaining a military force that advances the interests of the Empress.

It would work very differently if we were a part of the more centralized Imperial Navy.


Are you legally capable of leaving PIE Inc. whenever you like?
Do you have a special tax status reflecting your maintenance of a (para-)military force that exempts you from say… sales tax, or some other taxation other independent capsuleers would be subject to?

Thank you, other other Valerie.

Feel free to surprise me, but where I come from sometimes it’s the cakeday person that treats others and not the other way around. In that spirit, I will be bringing to Venal tonight a few large crates of Harroule dryweed that fell out of the back of a TransStellar Shipping freighter. There, the staff of my friend @Lauralite_Anne_Brezia’s club The Hissi Fit Lounge will prepare a traditional Duureanta Dryweed Cake for guests to sample.

1 Like

I didn’t know they made cake out of it! I’ll unfortunately not be able to attend. Some nights make me envious of all the full-time capsuleers who don’t have late night procurement meetings.

Is this really a sensible discussion?

PIE has explained how PIE works. You have explained how you define [translator: member of officially sanctioned national or tribal armed forces]. PIE does not work exactly like that definition. Everyone is in agreement so far.

Does anyone really need for the discussion to go on to try and establish that PIE are not soldiers, FULL STOP, because they are not soldiers by that definition? You will never completely agree, because the relevant systems of [translator: paramilitary, mercenary, armed circle] forces are defined in a pretty weird (though internally consistent, if you get into it) way related to [translator: fealty, faithfulness, obeisance].

These things just don’t translate in ways that make arguing over exact definitions sensible.


From CONCORD’s perspective, PIE inc. is an independent capsuleer organization. From Amarr’s perspective it is the Excubitoris Chapter of the Sacred Throne Order, which includes PIE inc, but is also more than that, as I outlined above.

In the portions of the universe that operate under CONCORD law, there are no special exceptions and members of the Praetoria can leave without consequences and become heretics and apostates and all of that without CONCORD lifting a finger. For some bizarre reason, the CONCORD Independent Capsuleer regulations give them that right.

But in the portions of the universe that operate under Amarr Law things are very different. The Order’s non-Capsuleer assets and individuals are operating entirely under Amarr law, and many of the Capsuleers in PIE inc. are deeply embedded into non-capsuleer Amarr concerns. The consequences there to betraying Amarr are far higher and are quite far reaching.

Now, the Order does not consider leaving the Excubitoris Chapter to be a betrayal, nor do we at the capsuleer level of the organization impose the sorts of set terms of mandatory service that you are talking about. We do, however, keep track of whether people who leave do so in an honorable manner or not, and we certainly inform the MIO of anyone who goes from PIE to outright attacking Amarr interests.


I’ve already said my opinion is only that, Else. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I’m just curious about those things, so I asked.

Good to know, thanks.

For the reasons adequately explained above I’m making no attempt to make my definition the only one, as however it was my initial use of the word that prompted this discussion I’ll clarify.

I consider a soldier to be defined by continual training, observance of discipline, and cultivation of war’s arts. By that definition I certainly find my use of the term to be defensible.

1 Like

Even if I’m a fighter, and even if discipline and training are both kind of significant parts of my life I don’t really think I count as a soldier, though it seems like it could apply to you, Ms. Yassavi.

It seems like a soldier would have to serve some kind of really greater cause, like an empire or nation-state or at least a city-state or something.

I don’t. So even if I carry a weapon and fly a warship, I don’t feel like I could be a soldier.

Also it seems like “soldier” implies a level of professionalism and responsibility, but maybe that’s an idealized view.


I suppose so. I can also see how a shift to a more feudal military model might bring other further complications such as unilateral military operations on the part of Heir Houses or individual Holders.

I think I’m just extremely wary of independent capsuleers taking on the traditional roles and responsibilities of a national military. If only because the degree of autonomy afforded to us can create issues with restraint in my mind. A military should be restrained, and used only as an instrument of government policies where force is required. There’s already such a lack of responsibility and accountability involving independents that direct association with national militaries seems dangerous to me.

1 Like

I suppose it’s past time I introduced myself.


I’m Maya Seaga.

Melisma directed me to delete her IGS account. Apart from the impossibility of this task, I thought a better solution would be to clarify some things in order to make her job easier.

Melisma’s task in our organization—the Karaya-Ya Circle, if it please you—is, in the most literal sense, to gain the approval of her capsuleer peers among both Amarr and Minmatar loyalists.

She and the other capsuleers in our employ are in the process of receiving what you might call their performance reviews.

In the former task, she received high marks. In the latter, we regrettably had to fail her. It’s of little consequence professionally; we will regroup and realign, as ever. But the poor dear takes such things to heart. Not to mention her personal affection for Captains Rhiannon and Vess, among others.

You will forgive her impulsive nature, I hope.

For now, she has been promoted to lead our Counter-Programming Division, as this was an area in which she also excelled.

In brightest light,
Maya Seaga
Director, Technical Applications, Karaya-Ya Circle
Clan Licei of the Krusual Tribe

The ever-living hell are you to decide what me and Deitra approve of or not? Might’ve at least consulted us about it first.


You have made your views very public on this message board as well as in private and in-person venues.

It isn’t within my purview to convince you, nor does it ultimately matter that you do or don’t. Neither could one say that you are incorrect, and certainly you are not wrong to hold your views.

At any rate, Melisma has been advised to interact with you as little as possible, for the sake of her own health, and she has pledged to obey.

Thank you for your time.
Maya Seaga

Not with my goals.

You misspelled ‘gaol’.

One more for entry for the Collaborators Attempt to Explain Elsebeth Without Bothering to Ask Her About Anything competition?


Now I know Mel is wrong. Im starting to doubt I’ll be pleasantly surprised with her successes.