When did HE attack loyal soldiers of the State??
His ships. He was the Executor.
His station. He was the CEO.
Which exact insurgency?
When did HE attack loyal soldiers of the State??
His ships. He was the Executor.
His station. He was the CEO.
Which exact insurgency?
Well, either he did, or the Navy did. There was a standoff at Haatomo station. It ended in blood. Heth’s forces refused to back down, and were holding Caldari citizens as hostages (and escaping workers claimed that Heth’s forces had attacked them when they refused to be press ganged into service). The Navy have claimed they had intelligence that lead them to believe Heth’s forces would kill the hostages, so the Navy stormed Heth’s forces, with boarding parties, and people were killed. If you consider Heth, the Provists, and Templis Dragonaurs loyal soldiers of the State, then the Navy attacked loyal soldiers of the State. If you consider the Navy loyal soldiers of the State, then Heth was staging a “terrorist insurgency against the Caldari State” (as the CEP called it) and taking Caldari citizens hostage, and he refused to surrender even when ordered to, which resulted in deaths at least among his own Provist and Templis forces when the Navy boarding parties stormed his position. (I am unaware of how many, if any, casualties there were among the Caldari Navy forces, so I will not make a claim to that.)
Oh, and he is charged of murdering Admiral Visera Yanala, by the Chief Executive Panel.
He is also charged, specifically, of malfeasance, by the Caldari Business Tribunal. The definition of malfeasance is “willful and intentional action that injures a party.”
And you know, since he was charged by the Caldari Business Tribunal with terrorism as well, and this is the word we keep using, let’s define it while we’re at it. Terrorism is defined as, 'the use of violence or of the threat of violence in the pursuit of political, religious, ideological or social objectives." Specifically, Heth was charged with terrorism ‘against’ the Caldari State, which means he was charged with using violence or the threat of violence against the Caldari State in the pursuit of his objectives.
All of the sources for these are already given in my previous post.
His occupation of Haatamo station with Provist and Templis Dragonaurs. And unlike the traitor comments, that is, word for word, what the Chief Executive Panel called it, in official documentation. As said, the quotes and sources are all already provided in my post above, but I’ll relink this one specifically.
The Chief Executive Panel has released a statement calling Tibus Heth “ the leader of a terrorist insurgency against the Caldari State ” and has removed him from the role of State Executor. … The seven CEOs unanimously voted against Heth.
and to confirm that the insurgency was the occupation, a second quote that I didn’t include above. This is, again, the CEP’s own words.
The Chief Executive Panel has denounced the occupation, saying, “Tibus Heth is acting without the authorization of the Chief Executive Panel and any military action against Caldari Prime is completely unsanctioned. This is being treated as an act of terrorism by the constituent corporations of the Caldari State.”
The CEP, Kaalakiota, Caldari Constructions, and the Caldari Navy didn’t seem to think so. The Caldari Business Tribunal and Kaalakiota charged him of theft (specific word in their ruling was misappropriation, which is defined as ‘the intentional and illegal use of property or funds’). He was also charged with embezzlement, which is defined as ‘theft or misappropriation of funds placed in one’s trust or belonging to one’s employer’.
Do you consider all of those State organizations the enemy, then? Honest question.
Open your profile, go to ‘Preferences > Notifications > Users’.
4 months at a shot. It’ll make it easier for some folks to deal with me, too, I’m sure.
Containing an insubordination by violence is not the same as containing citizens as hostages. Should I maybe claim that the Empire holds slaves as hostages? Or the Republic holds former slaves as hostages?
The Navy was misled since there was no information coming from the Executor himself to the CEP or directly to the Navy, they had orders coming without Executor’s approval or objection and they were used as a political tool to remove the Executor from the position using lack of the communication.
Which is an actual ■■■■■■■■. Adm. Yanala should have been court-martialed and probably could have been discharged from the service but spared of actual sentence since her actions saved millions. Instead of that she has chonen a honorable suicide like a real Caldari. Tibus Heth offered her a greatest honor, charging him with murder is against everything Caldari believe.
But not sentenced him - most likely that charge is just empty as others.
Again, that charge is just ridiculous. You can blame in terrorism, but there’s no sentence for terrorism. You can sentence for certain violence if you prove it did happen. Terror is just a motive for that violence and you can’t sentence anyone for their motives. You can only shame them for that.
Maybe Black Eagles would sentence for motives, but I don’t think any civilized court would judge you for the motives. They will judge you for the crime itself.
Again, Haatomo station was a station of Caldari Constructions which he was CEO of. Just think about it. If you “sieze” your own ship, for example, would it be considered as an “insurgency” against the Empire?
These claims were made only to remove him from the power. Quite likely he would win against them in CBT with ease - yet his position would be lost anyway, since he lost time for political movement to hold it. When he would aleviate charges against him, CPD would be already disbanded and there would be no place for Executor.
He just wasn’t ready to play “big” games. Our CEOs are pro at that, that’s their merit.
That was the power struggle, they won.
They are our leaders now, and I have to serve them and fight for them.
And I will give my life to protect them.
Does this answer satisfy you?
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I have nothing else to add.
Moving this here so it doesn’t clutter the other thread…
Of course she’s not. That would mean Heth was committing treason in the scenario Samira outlined.
Ishukone has business interests in the Gallente, it only makes sense they would offer support. I’m just saying calling it treason to reallocate resources for recovery (especially in this case, in which a monastery was hit) is a bit much. I clearly misworded my initial argument and for that I apologize
They were siding not just with Gallente - but with Federal Military forces, namely FDU organization Quantum Cats Syndicate. Whatever reason they had doesn’t matter. The treason remains treason. They sided with enemy, they started declaring wars on Caldari military organizations. What else would you need to call them traitors?
Ms. Kim, you have historically emphasized your status as a Provist, I can think of no way anyone could be so blinded with hatred that you would take an act of aid and turn it into a box on which you could rant about ‘treason’ and how I-RED are traitors. Remind me where you stand on the dissolving of the state under Heth? Your position as a state loyalist is questionable given your blindness toward what the state is and once was.
I’d love to discuss this privately and under more reasonable terms but I think my lexicon would be reduced to simply replying with variations of “What?” and “Explain your thought process.”
If you need a reminder I’d like to point to your incessant incrimination of I-RED for things that you want to believe. Such as their siding with Q-CATS and establishing a foothold in Blackrise being a front for as you love to say, treason against the state by engaging in caldari factions.
Am I to believe that at no point in your history you’ve engaged against Caldari? And before you say “They were traitors!” imagine for a second that we were to apply your reasons against you for those engagements. If you attacked Caldari, you are in fact, a traitor
Excuse me, what a pile of dumb nonsense is that? I never had honor to be a Provist.
How about looking into mirror? How blinded one shall be to call me a Provist? Here, someone for you to think about.
Committing an act of treason one becomes a traitor, is it news for you?
Reasons are irrelevant.
That it was a sad mistake.
If you truly believe in that - then it’s you who is freakingly blind here. If you not - then you’re just another gallentean bootlicker, who tears his shirt apart, loudmouthing State officers in good standing.
Now tell me, who you are?
I am Caldari. I believe facts and what I see. There are documented fact of siding with Federal militia. There are documented fact of declaring war on loyal and honorable Caldari militia. What else do you want? I belive in what I see. And what do you believe in?
There are many spies and traitors in the State, unfortunately. You have to know what you are standing for. When you stand for the State and then being wardecced for example, by some I-RED, it means they’re traitors. And if you need to attack anyone from the State - it’s only for their treason. How to know whom to attack then? - The answer is pretty simple: those, who attack State or attack the State by words.
Would I be a traitor for attacking I-RED after they wardecced us? Definitely no. They weren’t even in State military, just a neutral organization, pretending to be Caldari while trespassing in the warzone and attacking State military forces.
Would I be a traitor for attacking a State protectorate vessel of a pilot like “Warptosujarento” or something like that, who is known to be gallente spy? Definitely not.
Would I be a traitor for attacking a State protectorate vessel of a pilot, who by other words or actions attacked me first or the State? Definitely not.
So, what’s your point?
Actually, yes, you would. During your tenure in Wolfsbrigade there was rampant piracy in your ranks. I-RED’s engagement on behalf of Q-CATS was nothing more than to clean those people out. I-RED was NOT a neutral organization during this time as they had filed an agreement with Q-CATS to cooperate and engage these forces. Ironic this wasn’t made clear to you before considering how you were there.
So you acknowledge that individuals can operate under the guise of the State and still commit treason, but somehow engaging these forces on your part does not show any indication of treason, but when I-RED does it suddenly becomes an issues because you happened to be involved? I think I’m missing a step in your reasoning. Help me understand.
This I surprisingly agree with. Granted I may be misunderstanding your point.
The point I’m trying to get across is this:
No, from my perspective it seems you don’t. I truly wish you did, but in the /VERY/ short time I’ve been associated with you I’ve come to realize you simply don’t believe the facts when they’re in front of you.
Ishukone did what Ishukone always does, protects their interests. you happened to be caught in the middle and didn’t realize what was going on right around you.
If you’d like I can get you in touch with someone who might be able to help you understand.
They were not in State militia, they were siding in enemy - they were literally nobody, daring to think they have any authority to decide who in State military was a pirate or not, while they themselves were flying with organization known for piracy. They were not in the military, they were not in CBT, they were just freaking neutrals attacking loyal State corporation on a basis of a false accusation - probably supplied by these pirating gallente themselves.
Even if we assume the accusation wasn’t false considering that Wolfsbrigade has left the Honorable service for the State and joined pirate ranks themselves after, at the time while they properly committed their service to the State I-RED had absolutely no authority to investigate into possible cases of piracy.
Nor they had moral power to this, considering Wolfsbrigade was fighting the war, protecting the State from gallentean occupants, and what was I-RED doing at that time? Licking gallente boots? Sending brainwashed pets like you to attack loyal State officers?
My involvement is involvement of any State military personnel, so it’s not important… maybe it’s important to offensive people like you to bring all sort of nonsense about us, but in fact, it does not.
Now, for missing steps. I don’t know what exactly you managed to miss, considering I explained it quite plain and simple for even toddler to get it. But for you specially, as a special listener, I’ll rephrase that one more time.
First of all, when I-RED has declared war Wolfsbrigade forces, there were not a single evidence of treason of at least single pilot of Wolfsbrigade.
When Wolfsbrigade declared mutual war on I-RED… I think you can guess under which condition you declare war to be MUTUAL, I think even someone like you can get it that you need to have actual a wardec against you.
Then again, for possible treason of any Wolfsbrigade pilots I-RED had absolutely no authority to intervene, they could petition their behavior to Wolfsbrigade directorate to be court-martialed, or Protectorate, Navy or CBT. I-RED were just neutrals, attacking State militia - that’s all. And since they claimed to be loyal to the State, their actions can be considered as a treason, since loyal to the State organization under no circumstance shall attack State military. If it does - it is either not loyal or a traitor.
Returning back to Wolfsbrigade - it was actively participating in the war, being a LEADING State military group at that time. Claiming their treason before they left military, excuse me, so far was the most idiotic thing I heard on these forums.
Aren’t you just a foaming at mouth propagandist? Who brainwashed you so hard? If I don’t believe any fact, go ahead, show it maybe? Or be so kind to shut up and learn your place, okay?
Are we talking Ishukone or these I-RED scoundrels? You just gonna switch topics like that and then cry out loud about me not realizing something?
Are you freaking serious?
Oh, and speaking about facts going on around you, could you remind me please, what YOU were doing when we were protecting the State from I-RED’s aggression and where the heck did you soak in all this ■■■■■■■■? From some sort of Federal propaganda holoreel, or?
Me? At that time I was being trained in logistics and serving my mandatory period, and seeing a very beautiful Caldari trainee. We weren’t being fed data relating to conflicts that didn’t directly address us, thank you for asking
I can see I am not as flexible when it comes to mental gymnastics, I’ll step back and let the flame burn out.
I was in bed, having a really fun dream about cake, and just as it was getting to the good bit, I was rudely awakened by my servant, who said “Terribly sorry to disturb you ma’am but there is a God at the door”.
“Tell him I’ve already got one” I said blearily. “He is most insistent.” replied my servant. “Fine” I said, putting on my dressing gown so as to be respectable, I usually just wear a nightgown in bed, unlike say Gallente ladies who just wear a smile.
So when I got to the door, there was God, which I wasn’t really expecting at that time of day, and He said to me "Diana Kim is not a Templis Dragonaur” to which I responded “Well I knew that already. Was that it?”, to which God added “also Anyanka Funk isn’t dead after all”, and then He said “Good day madam.”, then left.
My servant then asked if I was going back to bed, and I said “well I’m up now, I might as well have a shower, get dressed, have breakfast and then go and post on the IGS”
Whilst mocking a fantasist is arguably deserved, mocking those that are still grieving is sickening. Whether you agree with her politics and methods or not, allow Anyanka to rest in the peace she deserves without your taunting.
They were wrong.
Yesterday, a person named Annelise Valate appeared in the Summit channel. She denied any relation to you, but was evasive as to whether she is a manufactured life form like Synthia or Connie. Perhaps you would be willing to clarify.
It’s not really something I care to discuss on the IGS.
Thanks, it will help lessen the headaches that I tent to get reading though these forums.
As a small note… you are not so bad after one get past the “passive criticism”
It’s not often I hear my criticisms described as ‘passive’. But thanks for the ‘not so bad’ part.