Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

Obviously not.

Yet if you are trying to change a false perception of yourself, doing the exact thing that you are accused of rarely helps.

(Ask me how I know.)

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Welcome to politics. Just because something’s true, that doesn’t mean anyone cares. Appearances—what people see, what people think they see—matters far more than what’s true.

“We’re not here to ruin life. We’re here to ruin your life.”
That statement, or one very close to it, gets thrown at Goonswarm all the time. It gets hurled in our faces as the words of our CEO, and it was. Thirteen years ago.

That CEO isn’t even in the organization anymore. He’s retired, popped back up to join our enemies in attacking us three years ago, and retired again. We’ve undergone two periods of ‘Cultural Revolution’ in the decade-and-almost-a-half since he said those words. We’ve completely altered the way we operate, the way our coalition is organized, and the way we recruit. A large number of people who were in the alliance when those words were spoken have nothing but hate and contempt for what the alliance has become, and accuse us regularly of having nothing in common with who we were when those words were spoken. They’re not completely wrong. It’s been thirteen years. People grow the hell up.

And yet, we still get those words thrown in our faces.

We accept that. It’s inevitable. People see ‘Goonswarm’ and they know what they ‘know’. No amount of truth or fact will change that. Ever.

Similarly, the truth doesn’t much matter for Ramijozana. Oh, sure, there’s a baseline of ‘what actually happened and what we can demonstrate would have happened if the charges were true’ that you can base your arguments on when trying to convince people. But what you do now will very much be seen in light of what people think they ‘know’ about you.

If they’re prone to think your Clan is suspect, they’ll take it as confirmation. If they’re prone to give your Clan a chance, they’ll see it as you showing an open-mind and giving people a chance. People judge what they see based entirely on what they expect to see. The human brain is a pattern-matching engine, and it doesn’t matter if the pattern’s real or not. Only if it fits expectations.

And if it doesn’t? It will. The brain will find a way to make it fit expectations.

You can’t base your actions on what others will think… but as a leader, as someone who represents others, even if only in the public awareness, you can never be unaware of it.

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I’m definitely aware of it. And you’re not wrong. Neither is Captain Rhiannon.

Here’s the thing: During the occupation, and then during the Rebellion, Clan Ramijozana had no interest in working with the Amarr. Based on the notes they left behind and on institutional memory, the clan leaders throughout that time were too angry over the harms they had suffered, and were too wary of being disowned by the rest of our people, to entertain the possibility.

I don’t blame them. I’m angry too, and I’m wary too. But I’ve always planned to contribute to freeing our kin and ending slavery through economic means, including collaborating with the Amarr to eliminate their need for slave labor. I’m not kidding about “always.” I was born into this role. Growing up, I was expected to come up with some miraculous way to restore Corovid to profitability and the Clan to prosperity. This is the answer I came up with. My Clan doesn’t necessarily agree with me or approve of my approach. They just put up with me.

So what it comes down to, ultimately, is this: I can follow through with my plans, which I do honestly think will work, and ignore the noise about my Clan being collaborators and hope that this pays off before someone really does try to systematically eliminate us; or I can step back to protect my Clan from scrutiny, but at the cost of my life’s work.

That’s a tough decision, even when it’s simplified like that, eliminating all the other complicating factors at play.

This is why I’m angry about the LUMEN ball, by the way. I can’t have taken all this ■■■■ only for them to prove me wrong.

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Too late.

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I sympathize with that. I do. And I don’t envy the choice. Just remember:

They don’t need slave labor. They don’t. Their economy could handle transitioning to a paid (and taxed) workforce just fine, especially if they offered incentives for the former slaves to remain in paid (and taxed) positions. In fact, their economy would probably boom as a result. The former slaves would be spending a lot higher a percentage of their money than the Holder does now. For one thing, they wouldn’t be buying in bulk.

And all that economic activity feeds back into itself to create more work and more jobs and more economic activity.

Really, when it comes to a well-ordered, functioning society, wealth… is kind of a crime.

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Actually, what happened was this: Valerie Valate posited the idea. A few people commented that they’d watch that fight. Then, based on that interest, I announced that my company was setting up the fight and selling tickets for it.

The only comment Mizhir made between Valerie’s suggestion and my kicking off ticket sales was a remark about paparazzi. The other fighters didn’t join in until later.

I took the initiative. I organized the fighters, got Lithara on as a ref, got Makoto on as a bookie, changed the venue because someone wanted it changed, removed Lith from reffing one fight because someone wanted her removed, set the date and time, and was in the process of getting everyone to collaborate on the rules of engagement when the emergency about the two Amarr combatants arose. I DID EVERYTHING. No one else had to lift a finger.

If you think it wasn’t my event, or if you think everything was going my way because I was being a petulant child, then you can eat fedo ■■■■. Everything went my way because I was the only one putting work in. If I hadn’t, then the fight would never have existed at all.

Don’t believe me? Go reread the ■■■■■■■ thread. Which, by the way, you contributed to only once, with a wholly insignificant comment.

I notice that you haven’t addressed the fact that you were dead wrong about why I “ruined” the fight. You know, to save asses of people who are currently being ■■■■ to me? What’s up, pissant? Can’t admit that you need to shut up about ■■■■ you know nothing about?

‘fedo feces’. It’s alliterative. Alliteration’s always catchier. :wink:

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I’m sorry, Melisma, but you burned what goodwill you had when you pulled the stunt with the mud wrestling.

See, we all knew this, but your lies and cover-up did you no favours. You took all the blame for it, and now look where you are. If you had let the Amarr save their own asses, we all could have moved on from this. Maybe the event would have happened anyways. Maybe not. However, the obfuscation, and your key role in such, has muddied the waters as to your loyalties and trustworthiness.

So, there’s these people she knows. She associates with them because she feels like they’re good, honest people. They’re people she can work with to try to make things better for everyone. They’re people she believes are honest, honorable people. They have to be, because by associating with them, she’s not just risking her reputation. She’s risking the reputation of her Clan, which is already suspected by some of being collaborators during the Occupation.

So for her, the chief of the cadet branch of her Clan’s lead family, and to whom falls the responsibility for the Clan’s financial well-being within the Republic as well as beyond it, to associate with a group of Amarr loyalists is a great personal risk. It’s the kind of risk that could, conceivably, if things were to get worse between the Empire and Republic, lead to a bunch of masked Shakorites murdering her entire Clan and the government completely ignoring it. She’s risking a lot on the basis of the Amarr group’s honesty, honor, and forthrightness.

Potentially, she’s risking lives.

And with that on the line, this group of people advertised something as benefitting a ‘charity’. So she supported it. Publicly. And then there’s been a limitation of how transparent they’re being. It’s come out that the ‘charity’ is themselves. They’ve been forced to recant the ‘charity’ bit and just call it a ‘fund-raiser’.

None of that has to have happened due to malice or malfeasance for it to look very, very bad from a political standpoint.

None of it. I doubt anyone here thinks LUMEN is seriously ‘up to something’. I mean, don’t take this the wrong way, Aria, but LUMEN’s not really capable of being ‘up to something’. None of you are that good at being sneaky.

But it looks bad. And optics are often all that matters in politics. And the more money LUMEN was taking in, the more her support for it has the potential to look like ‘Clan Ramijozana Supports Amarr Empire’ is a valid takeaway.

She’s worried about being put in a position where she can do one of two things. Either:

  1. Do what she thinks is personally right, and ignore the haters, or
  2. Do right by the people to whom she has a responsibility, and protect them by cutting you guys off and maybe shooting you in the face.

The initial error, and the lack of transparency coupled with the apparent uniformity of ‘it’s all Amarr again but me now, oh fukk’, has put her in a very uncomfortable, and potentially very dangerous position. That’s what she’s not thrilled about.

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You’re hired.

Coming from a “Gallente Sani,” I’m somehow not worried about this.

I got a job. Four of 'em. At least two are even more political than yours.

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Fair enough. I probably can’t afford you anyway.

If you want to insinuate something, go for it. Since you’re obviously in a mood to piss everyone off today, have at it.

Not worth it.

And just earlier today, you were asking me for a donation. You have an odd way of soliciting funds, Mel.

I mean, it’s not like this isn’t right above where you say that:

Oh, just 11m too slow to be a snappy and accurate response!

I’m… not Ms. Ramijozana?

Can you prove that?1 HMMMMM???

Can you find logs that demonstrate both that AND the lack of planning from LUMEN!?!?!?

OR HAVE YOU JUST WALKED INTO MY LITTLE TRAP OF DISTRACTION AND NONSENSE BECAUSE HONESTLY THE WHOLE FREAKING THING ABOUT THE AUCTION IS GETTING KINDA PLAYED OUT AND DONE???

I wonder


1 Yeah, no, you’re not. That’s my bad.

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I mean, we both hang out at the Tanoo freeport, so it’s easy to get us confused.

She’s way more badass, though.

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