Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

I thought Fatal had been… fatally injured? Or was I misinformed?

Do forgive me if my tone suggested Fatal was still alive, my talk of him was more aimed at the reputation he built up during his life.

Fatal is believed to be dead, yes. After being transferred to a clone of inferior grade after he was podded back in YC 106 i believe. He hasn’t been seen or heard from sense and the Rabbit had to step up and take his place.

Kill me gently

Quit stealing my joke, ya poseur!

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Pfft, I don’t see your name on it.

Also I am slightly concerned, since Chakaid is now an Arch Grande Butte of the Theology Council and thusly has the power to label Samira as a heretic™ with Official Theology Council™ stickers.

I should preface first that this is not a direct response to her Ladyship, and second that I am part of the laity. I am not a historian, just a simple pilot, but I think confusion may arise outside Holy Amarr with respect to the reforms suggested in the thread about the test of faith. I feel I should offer an alternate perspective (nothing more) from one of the faith, to the curious throughout the cluster.

It is not uncommon for reformers, even those in secular societies, to see the need for cultural sea-change as particularly urgent. They witness the brazen corruption in the hearts of humanity that goes unchecked, which is very real. The statements from Pilot Kernher in the aforementioned thread are not unique in this way. However, Holy Amarr has existed for a very, very long time, and it was only through the grace of God and the wisdom to obey His Will that we arrived where we are: not Paradise, but Empire.

Many zealous believers demand that the Reclaiming be consumated “today, if not sooner,” but the nature of Reclaiming is not so base. Faith is never satisfied. When it falters, when corruption takes root in our hearts, it is because we have failed one another in our duty to God. Faith is a struggle, and the burden we bear together is that the struggle of Reclaiming the faithful will not end in our lifetimes. God meant for us to be here, now, to weather the storms to come before Paradise can be found.

My father used to tell me, “we are but a blink of the eye to the Sefrim, as they are to the Lord,” and it wasn’t to minimize our faith or our importance to God. It was a reminder that God sees time beyond our ability to know, and that the millennia-long road to Holy Amarr was built in earnest toward a future that our ancestors, the Chosen and their servants alike, would never know. They believed, and they doubted, but united in their faith to God they persevered. Faith became Empire, and to be worthy of Paradise, we must build upon Holy Amarr, not break it.

I hope that, in writing this, the meaning was not lost in the metaphor.

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I think not.

Everything you have said in your post is very true, and something to be kept in mind for all faithful.

It is, however, important to remember that our faith is active. God charged us to Reclaim what He has given, he made us His Angels of Mercy and Vengeance, it is our purpose is to cultivate the spirit of mankind. When we falter, it is we who must correct ourselves, Reclaim ourselves, lest we, as you say, fail one another in our duty to God. Even if we will never see the changes in our lifetime, pursuing those changes is still our responsibility. To sit back and do nothing, thinking that Amarr will right itself on its own in the passage of time, to push off our duty to the next generation, and the next, and the next, is laziness and cowardice.

“Be Careful. Pure Thought is the Instigator of Sin.”

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I’ve never heard of a gentle death. All death is violent in one way or another

I have heard tell of an Ancient Gallentian phrase of ‘un petit mort’ which means ‘a little death’ and apparently had another meaning as well. But never a gentle death. Is that the Caldari version?

Although, I should probably not discuss such matter with Diana for my own well-being right now.

Now that’s just plain silly. I’m sure even the Empire knows the saying ‘a chain is only as strong as its weakest link’. The more people you introduce to the process, the more human beings you have involved, the more the chance of corruption increases. After all, one corrupt actor whom others trust can poison the work output of the whole group, just by introducing a few small errors here and there. And that’s without getting into ‘the work’ being a body of text as incomprehensibly large as the Amarr Scriptures.

Say what you like about how I’m an unbeliever and an outsider, most of the Amarr here know that one thing I do almost compulsively is ask questions about their faith, and the Scriptures that form its foundation. Some may even recall a discussion where I was told, by a number of the more learned Amarr, that the complete body of Scripture is so vast, nobody can know it all. Nobody has time to read it all. It would take longer than the centuries-long lifetime of an Amarr Holder.

And if nobody can know it all, then nobody can fact check every single claim and assertion being quietly made in an off-hand manner as a terribly minor, insignificant really, point during a discussion. And then that minor, insignificant point enters into what people are aware of, and can be reminded about. And it’s accepted as ‘yes, I recall that being discussed’, and soon other things are being considered on the basis of that formerly-insignificant point. And it snowballs from there.

The larger the group, the larger the work, the more potential there is for corruption. And the only prevention for it is constant, individual vigilance on the part of everyone impacted by it.

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But can’t that also be said of the weakness that compels people to accept order over virtue? To obey because it’s easier than having to think for yourself? If one is capable, without intermediary, of turning toward God, then doesn’t that, in and of itself, mean that person is capable of judging for themselves just what ‘turning toward God’ is, in the first place? Isn’t that exactly what’s being decried when Gaven claims

and

?

Right there, you’ve established a simple thing that supports Samira’s position, and utterly eviscerates Gaven’s. If the way to God is always free, because none can stand between God and his creation, then no-one and nothing is needed as intermediary. There is no need for any higher authority to show the way. There is no need for any Theology Council. There is no need to others to interpret Scripture. The seeker has only to place their faith in God, and he will provide to them the understanding he has determined is right for them to have.

Who can stand between Him and His creation? Not a Theology Council. Not an Empire. Not unfathomably endless volumes of Scripture.

So why are you trying? Is it anything more than the fear that she—and you, with what you’ve said there—might be right?

Deceivers are always active and anyone not vigilant can fall prey to deception. So while it’s true that all under Heaven serve God, it is also mandated by Scripture that all under Him serve one higher. So despite each of us are to always bear Him first in our thoughts and spend our days in His service, bodies like the Theology Council are still a necessity in order to ensure we aren’t led off the True path by the wicked.

It’s one of the main reasons why corruption within the Theology Council is so very alarming. Even one or two sinful voices on the council could lead to disaster if not removed quickly. If the wrong people were to get on the Theology Council, entire regions of the Empire could wind up in the hands of heretics. Abolishing the Council completely could have similar consequences.

Dealing with possible corruption is the tricky part. Our part is to support the most righteous above us and ensure they have the tools they need to stay watchful, as was recently done when we turned Zashev over to Lord Arrach, leading to arrests in the Ministry of Internal Order with hopefully more exposed corruption on the way. In the worst cases, God will find a way to expel such corruption from His Empire, as He did when Empress Jamyl’s miraculous return caused the red Chamberlain, Karsoth, to flee in one of the Empire’s darkest hours.

As the Imperial Seal reflects, the Empire is imperfect… but so are we. We need the best among us in positions to work towards a perfect Empire.

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And this doesn’t strike you as an entirely self-serving mechanism for those who have the power to insert themselves between God and the faithful? Isn’t it funny how the only people who are able to determine who holds power in God’s name… are always the ones who already have the power?

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Of course He did. Of course that was a case corruption being expelled from the Empire, rather than growing in it.

:face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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Indeed. Of course it was.

Glad that issue’s settled, then.

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Sarcasm, dear Paladin.

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I was aware.

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How involved is God that he would have Amash-Akura reign of his own merit against his enemies - Molok the Deceiver himself, no less - but intervene and miraculously revive Empress Jamyl to expel the Red Chamberlain?

For that matter… why has God not yet seen fit to revive her again to expel the Bloody Duke of Fabai?

Simple. God never revived Jamyl. She claimed magical powers and played hero in order to dupe the Amarr people, just like the Deceiver did.

I suppose I can field this one. The idea is that God will not allow Holy Amarr to fall so long as we give our all in its maintenance, unity, and mission. Now, the story goes that we are responsible for doing those things with all we have, not to ask for any more help than we were endowed with and blessed with. Direct intervention sort of ruins the purpose; we’re instruments of God not pets. However, intervention is sometimes necessary, and the fact is that in the face of overwhelming force, Amarr still yet stands after a rather miraculous series of events.

At present, if our task is to purge Fabai of those elements, and God has not intervened, it is thus imperative that it has not escaped our ability to deal with it personally. So long as God sees it to be within our ability to handle, we would be commanded to deal with it ourselves, not demand His hand to keep us from the hard work ahead. Which was the point of the story of Epitoth, in the end. Molok the Deceiver was defeated when Amash-Akura actually got down to business, and after the Emperor was struck down no less. Without even the Sefrim to guide him, for they were sent away. It was always in our ability, and God was not ours to command the help of.

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