Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

Fiction Portal Intergalactic Summit
5805

Hmmm. As you say, sir, but:

This is a meaningful distinction-- a defining distinction, to the Caldari mind. To them, “blending” is a loss of identity, a diminishing of self. Perhaps it can be that, and still also “a beautiful example of unity and solidarity,” but the Caldari can’t see it that way.

To the Caldari, this world is a crucible, where all who dwell within are tested-- not relentlessly, for where is the test if the subject is given no opportunity to grow soft and complacent? But inevitably, and without mercy.

The ultimate goal and purpose of the Caldari is to survive-- to face and withstand the test, at all cost. To them, it is their very unblended cultural identity that makes them strong, able to stand against all that comes.

They’re afraid you’ll make them and (more importantly) their descendants weak and complacent as (to their eyes) you are. And when the test (once winter and war, now gods-know-what) comes, they’ll be found wanting and die.

To put it from a slightly different angle, you are a test of their will. Your way is nothing if not attractive, but if they allow themselves to be seduced, they will perish alongside you.

The right to remain themselves, undiluted, is one they hold as precious, even sacred. It’s why they don’t require or even encourage their clients to conform: to them, every way of life should stand or fall on its own merits (or lack of same), and to require change is to rob a people of its fair opportunity to compete on its own terms.

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5806

As an afterthought: the Federation moving actively and aggressively is a sight probably a lot of Caldari greet with relief. Subtlety, charisma, reason, and persuasive, corrosive rhetoric (not to mention a seductively relaxed, “free” lifestyle) presented during a strained-but-productive peacetime are problematic challenges because an enemy who works that way is largely outside traditional Caldari experience and difficult to effectively fight (the occasional keen-witted Deteis merchant of luxuries notwithstanding).

An actual war with fleets and armored troops and grim-yet-stirring speeches? Dead-center for the Caldari comfort zone. (Add bonus points for lethal weather; snow for preference, but armor-melting heat or hard vacuum also count.)

(Yes, the State’s experience in the Triglavian invasion was a bit of a shock. For that very reason you shouldn’t expect it to remain unaddressed.)

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5807

Okay.

5808

Haha-- ah, sorry sir. Wasn’t looking to overwhelm.

5809

Cold Wind Favors the Strong.

And cold, snowy wintery days are the best.

I will say this. I know from the Gallente point of view, we are a horrible war mongering, human rights hating group of people. Maybe so. But if you work hard, you are rewarded well. As it should be. We have a strict ridged structure, and a deep heritage. We expect those that adopt into the state to adopt those values.

When I spent time in the Federation I became overwhelmed by all it had to offer with little to no direction. And worse, because the Federation is such a hodgepodge of cultures, it really doesn’t have one to call it’s own. And I never really fit In because of it. I needed direction. I needed a culture to call my own. And I couldn’t accept that freeloading is not only tolerated, but actually encouraged for political gain. Which to be honest, really pissed me off. So I never integrated. And knowing what I know now, I don’t think I ever could.

But that doesn’t mean I can’t play nice with the Feds, despite our differences.

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5810

Yep. That’s us. A hedonistic, directionless, amorphous blob of indistinguishable freeloaders.

Nailed it.

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5811

Personally, I think both the State and Federation are neoliberal entities promoting private property rights and free markets where corporations exert a high degree of economic and political power.

The main difference is that Caldari brands prefer to emphasize notions of overcoming weakness and the decadence of democracy through the power of genetics and traditional culture whereas Gallente brands prefer to offer the promise of hope and democracy with the illusion of choices in progressive politics even though the vast majority will never really achieve the dream of living in an Alpha city wearing designer labels while drinking champagne.

Of course, people being people they’ll want to argue why their choice of brand is the best and superior to the choices of others!

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5812

I’m not saying that the State is better than the Federation, or vice versa. I’m saying that I tried both, and found the State to be a better fit for me. The Federation is the Federation. And those that click with it aren’t “worse” people.

I have a lot of respect for Ed, despite him being labeled a “Traitor.” And I get a lot of ■■■■ for having that respect for him. But I have conversations with him. We talk about all sorts of things. He thrives in the Federation and I can’t fault him for that. Or others that do.

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5813

Mr. Thorne? Let’s not mince words: he is a traitor. “Labeled” implies that there’s some light in which he’s not, and I don’t think even he has argued such a thing.

How much weight you put on that is up to you. I have conversations with him, too. He chose his path and walks it, his only apparent regret being not changing sides sooner. I, also, have regrets, mistakes to atone for, some remembered, others, not.

In the end we both betrayed those who had claim on our loyalty. He’s a traitor; I’m a kinslayer. Which is worse? … Does it matter?

I don’t despise him, either (I’m bad at despising), but I do remember. I can move past it, but I remember. I don’t know that even he would ask that I forget.

I wouldn’t, either way. And I don’t understand the shape of his regret (though I’ve seen it mirrored in others, such as Arsia Elkin). But in the end, I can’t resent him for his choice.

We all have our places in this world. Wishing his were different won’t make it so-- to one side, or to the other.

5814

Yes yes. I know…

I’m playing nice with the Gallente right now. I’ll use the word “labled” to be less confrontational. Catching flies with honey sort of thing. You don’t like it, contact me in a direct message. I’m not going to derail this conversation.

5815

Uh. Not to unduly-pedant? But it’s the Off-Topic thread, sir.

(And, respectfully, it seems to me that we do our best diplomatic work without softening our views and feelings; that’s exactly what Mr. Menkalinan was complaining about before-- us soft-pedaling our society’s harder edges. I’m sure we can be straightforwardly honest without being all, “And this is why the Federation must be destroyed!” … do you not think so?)

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5816

To be fair, each individual has their own personal style. What’s important is avoiding the blinkered rhetoric and reflexive disagreement that adds nothing to mutual understanding.

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5817

The Gallente tend to adopt a laissez-faire approach, where the government attempts to remain as uninvolved in corporate operations as possible, the corporations are not actually government-affiliated but merely registered as legal entities under the Federal Government’s tax structure, and it is the government—as a stand-in for the amalgamated population of the Federation, not for its own sake—not the corporations, that general loyalty is expected to be directed toward.

The Caldari have more of a zaibatsu approach, where one megacorporation’s vertical integration tends to have its population largely silo’d from the populations of other corporations—and it is the corporations that maintain populations. State citizenship flows from corporate citizenship, and the government of the State is formed not of representatives of the people, but of representatives of the Corporations. In effect, each Megacorp is its own nation within a corporate coalition bound by common culture and traditions. In that regard, the State itself can be seen as very similar in some ways to the way many of the major nullsec alliances operate.

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5818

What I said was likely a bit reductive but I agree with you.

It’s just as I get older perhaps the more I become an Absurdist, at least in a traditional Achur sense. The universe is uncaring to our desires and at times cruel in its randomness. Sometimes good people get hurt and evil people find reward, or we die to something completely out of our control.

Besides not playing the game of chance that is life by taking yourself out of it (which I would not advocate) creating meaning through higher powers whether religiously, spiritually, politically, or ideologically seems how most people cope with an uncertain and uncaring universe. I’ve just become increasingly more detached from such need for meaning although I remain curious how people craft and share them to create the societies and cultures we know today. Perhaps I’m just fine with doubt and don’t need such certainty or righteousness to live, nor do I think I have sufficient cruelty to be someone who is convinced that they are right.

I have my husband and children whose happiness is essential to my own and I know what makes me happy. That I think is enough for me, as transient as such things are.

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5819

This is exactly what I was referring too. I was sharing my views and experiences living in the Federation. Why it didn’t work for me. The self discovery process that the State is a better fit for me personally. And it’s been derailed into a “hand-slapping, you should convey it my way because it’s better” load of nonsense.

  1. I’m not a diplomat.
  2. you’re making a huge assumption that you know exactly how I portray the State in my inter-personal communication with an individual. And let’s face it. Public communication is vastly different.
    I assure you that when I’m in a one on one personal conversation with someone I don’t “soften” the State for them.
    And
  3. these kinds of derailing conversations are boring. It bores me. It serves absolutely no purpose except to grandstand. And I have no interest in such things.

You do you. I’ll do me.

Thanks.

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5820

I think—and I could be totally wrong here—that Aria’s ‘It’s the Off-Topic thread’ was more meant as ‘don’t worry, you can’t derail the conversation here’.

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5821

I like Gallente people because they are usually quite open minded and interested in novel experiences.

Sue me.

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5822

I would, but Scooter McCabe doesn’t do Space Court anymore.

5823

I Love You Arrendis!!!

5824

True or false: The Amarr mandate to bring all of humanity into union under God means that the Caldari must, eventually, come under the dominion of the Throne?

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