Okay, so… the back-and-forth between Aria and Elsebeth is getting kind of annoying.
And Aria, I respect you very much and am honored to have flown with you, but you do genuinely have this thing where you start talking about Else in the third person instead of the second. And it is kind of off putting, if not offensive. It’s like talking about someone who’s not only in the room with you, but is standing close enough to hear.
I don’t intend to wade into the rest of the debate, but… yeah. It’s a valid criticism.
… hm. I’m not really sure how to respond, Melisma.
After talking with Deitra I feel a little like someone shook me awake in the middle of stabbing somebody to death and I’m being told stabbing people is rude, especially in public, and also that I should look at people when I’m stabbing them.
I mean, it’s true, at least the bit about it being rude, but …
… really I’m eyeing what I was in the middle of doing and wondering if I really want to keep at it.
Don’t worry, I will not be continuing it much. After asking someone so respected by you all to stop something half-a-dozen times, to just get more of the same as response, I’m pretty much done with this whole “let’s just talk about it”.
Also GL to whoever’s turn it is this year to tell me to “put politics aside” and that certainly I would enjoy a party with these people if I just smiled and nodded politely and pretended they don’t despise me and mine. Your chances have pretty much gone from minimal to non-existent.
Aria, do you realize how entirely empty your evaluation of me is?
My approach now is the same as it was in the days when you were scolding Mizhara and using me as an example of someone you found patient and communicative. You decided to interpret my words in a different tone, and never looked back. And now you blame me for the time and energy you feel you wasted?
I’ll tell you the same thing I spent years telling Alizabeth: You’ll only ever be as happy as you choose to let yourself be. If you’re wasting time and energy being mad at someone, that’s on you.
But, for the record?
Seems you dis agree with yourself there. Maybe you two should chat, some time.
Maybe nothing really did change. Maybe you were always, with rare exceptions, well … mean.
Maybe the things about you that upset me so were always there. Maybe the one who changed was me. Although I remember there was a time when you’d back off, if I asked you to.
Maybe you just seemed nicer because we also had Miz around.
I’ll think about it. But I don’t really see us being friends again, Arrendis. Experientially, I’m nearly five years old, and I’m not quite so desperate to be liked anymore. I can disregard people’s opinions and it doesn’t seem like a dangerous or foolish or cruel thing to do.
Edit: I’m not saying that to be flippant or smug, either, Aria. And it has nothing to do with desperation to be liked. Over the last few years, you’ve taken to responding to ‘you’re wrong’ by accusing whoever says it of being a terrible person who wants to see trillions die for their own moral purity. You keep on claiming to be seeking to understand the universe… but that’s very much not the impression given by literally every sentence that isn’t explicitly making that claim.
You hold that ‘seeker of truth’ thing up like you do your ‘I don’t hold grudges’. It comes across as something you’re trying to convince yourself of, even while all you do is attack and insult people for disagreeing with you. And me saying that isn’t me being ‘mean’. It’s just not me making any particular effort to go out of my way to be ‘nice’. There’s a huge gulf of ‘just being’ between the two.
Maybe I wanted you to think I was tough. Or maybe I thought I had asked, plenty clearly enough-- that my pain was plenty apparent.
Mostly it seemed like if I showed weakness, you pressed the attack. I don’t know what you thought you were going to do, besides make me hate you. Either way, I don’t really care anymore. I don’t need your approval and I’m tired of your abuse. You have your causes and your hobbies; you can pursue them without me.
Yep. That’s the other line you like to trot out in contradiction to everything you do.
Pointing out the truth isn’t abuse, Aria. Maybe while you’re having that chat with yourself, one of you could ask the other why you seem to think it is.
Never try to have social interactions of any kind with certain slavers or their mouthpieces. It’s pointless and just plain annoying for all parties involved (and indeed for those just looking on).
I don’t think, considering our past interactions, that many would consider I would be saying this but that isn’t a fair assessment of Arrendis. She can come across as mean at times, sure. But I honestly believe it is not meant from a place of spite.
Personally, I believe Arrendis is challenging and will take the slightest mistake you make in your argument and tear it down. This isn’t a bad thing. If you have a water-tight argument or belief, you should be able to withstand such challenges without doubt. Being challenged by Arrendis on my humanitarian relief attempt in Kahah made me realise that I could not reconcile myself with my open support and propagation of slavery, for instance.
‘Being mean’ is not Arrendis’ schtick as she will stop when asked - albeit that is usually the point in which she declares victory. However - and please bear in mind that I stood up for you against Arrendis earlier - based on this thread, ‘being mean’ might be yours, Aria, as you refuse to stop when asked.
All I ask of everyone is to consider that we are all people and we all have emotions and feelings. If at that point you still don’t care, don’t complain if someone calls you out on it and, instead, own it.
I’ll admit, I often find it difficult to ascertain if I’m being mean or not. I grew up and live in a society that’s highly competitive and adversarial. Discussion often takes the tenor of a knife fight – or maybe bar brawl. However, the intent is usually not to go in for the kill. A bit of verbal sparring just helps sharpen ideas and opinions, and like any good fight with a partner you walk away with a few bruises and have a laugh over some lagers.
Although, I know I have a tendency to play devil’s advocate for sides I think are the public underdog in order to foster discussion which probably doesn’t help – but I think that’s the lawyer in me that can’t help it.
It’s hard to ascertain yourself being mean or not, though I hard as try as possible to not be mean to others and bring apologies whenever I feel I offended someone on an accident. Being mean in a discussion is a demerit that makes your point weaker. I myself grew up and live in a society built on principles of honor and respect, while being competetive. In a society I came from being mean to others means putting a roadblocks to yourself that will prevent your growth both as a person and as an employee, sticking to one place like an angry barking doggie in your personal kennel of a workplace you try to protect from others. Mean people rarely climb corporate ladders as fast as those who show respect and honor. Being just mean to others and not realizing it is a huge demerit. In our society good discussions are conducted with facts and logic, not through verbal sparring that suits more Gallente political scene.
On the other hand, I try myself to be deliberately mean to the class of people I refer as “offensive jerks”. I have no tolerance to their crap and just try to put them down into their place whenever I have a chance. When I do that, I do not commit any demerit - when you will see being mean to someone, 99% it is being mean on a purpose and that means as well that I’ve lost any hope for making a profitable discussion with that person and intend only to put them (or in a mean way of saying - shoving them) into their place.
I believe as well that this behavior is actually merited. Since the CONCORD doesn’t have a criminal punishment for people committing crimes with their words, unlike the State, relying on an illegal and amoral concept of “freedom of speech”, we ourselves need to take actions against those who abuse the privilege to speak by assaulting them on their own field.
Murder is a crime. But killing a pirate who murders others is a justice.
Being mean is an offense and demerit. But being mean to an “offensive jerk” is a justice.