Off-Topic Thread


(Graelyn) #2242

I will gladly Thank God in my prayers for that, and feel no shame whatsoever.


(Teinyhr) #2243

I really can’t be bothered to buy into your or Arrendis’ fearmongering.


(Mizhara Del'thul) #2244

“Fearmongering”? Have you seen the numbers they are bringing? They, like PIE, have direct deployment routes. Decrying their relevance in a situation where our people are fighting their soldiers on the ground, and the freighters are shuttling non-stop? Fearmongering, I swear. I know you are massively insecure because of how little you can do alone, but simply accepting that those organizations can genuinely flood the system with assets and forces compared to what piddly little things we can smuggle down planetside isn’t a bad idea here.

It’s perhaps time to respect your enemy’s capabilities a bit. Especially when they’re invited there by Kittenz herself meaning skipping a lot of logistical hurdles, and have the economic and military strengths the entire rest of the participants in Thebeka can’t even hope to match.

We are truly lucky they’re still busy in Providence and can’t - or won’t, who knows? - deploy in strength.


(Arrendis) #2245

Fearmongering?

I want them to come. I want them to bring numbers. If they don’t use wardecs and attempt to play the ‘neutral logi’ game, having CVA to point to means I can get more people to show up to kill them when they go suspect.

If they do use wardecs, every pilot they have there is one who is not in Providence, and I know plenty of people willing to go roaming into Provi to make them feel that absence.

Fearmongering? Let them come.


(Teinyhr) #2246

Respect? Maybe. Soil my pants with you? I’d rather not.


(Mizhara Del'thul) #2247

Teinyhr, I’ve fought them alone and in numbers. I’ve been part of killing their Keepstar, and hunted in their protected grounds alone, sucessfully. You do everyone involved a disservice by talking out of your arse like that, when you know it’s that dishonest. No one is fearing them. We’re acknowledging the reality of the situation, which is that we’d better hope this is as far as they go, if we are to continue working towards our goals.


(Teinyhr) #2248

Yet you’re doing your best to make people fear them.

If that is the reality of the situation, just pack your bags and go home then. They’ll surely swarm us all and we’re doomed, so scary and mighty and unassailable is the CVA. Let’s all just pack this up, we have no hope.

Reality of the situation is, I find it incredibly unlikely they will spare more than a token force to this issue, if indeed, as you say, they have other things in their mind. Reality of the situation is that it’s probably just PR. So yes, you are fearmongering.


(Mizhara Del'thul) #2249

Gods your insecurities are vexing. As for “token forces”, they quite literally dropped off over a million soldiers. Are you going to call that a ‘token force’ when it’s our people on the surface that will die to them? Can you counter this ‘token force’ I wonder?


(Teinyhr) #2250

Right back at you.

I have not pinpointed such numbers even after several readthroughs of their declaration. Where did you pull such a number from? I counted around 50,000 from their open declaration, at this time, which is a token force compared to what we saw in Kahah III. I’m going to ignore your appeal to emotion bit.

No? Neither can any of us not in the good graces of the Empire. All we can do is try and drop off material aid, rest is up to them. And isn’t this what you constantly fantasize about, that they get at least to die free?


(Melisma Ramijozana) #2251

Maybe there’s context missing here?

For example, on my part I don’t really understand why CVA’s arrival has provoked more concern than any Amarr group previous.


(Gaven Lok'ri) #2252

Potential size of deployment. PIE and SFRIM are a known force in this sort of scenario, and while I expect we have exceeded many expectations, we are still not huge.

CVA potentially can bring a great deal more force to the table and completely change the strategic situation on the capsuleer involvement side of things.

Whether they choose to do so is a different question.


(Mizhara Del'thul) #2253

What Gaven said, basically. If they decide to show up in force, the scales of the conflict change completely, and our side is entirely outgunned. Fortunately, their kind tends to prefer to stay in the outer regions when they can, so we may not have to deal with that sort of disruption.

And yes, I am not entirely unimpressed by PIE and Khimi Harar’s numbers. Sometimes.
That said, being barely equal to the Matari in your own highsec would be concerning to me if I were you.
Imagine if the situation was reversed.


(Teinyhr) #2254

Acknowledging? I see in my minds’ eye this glee, everytime you get to open your gob about how awesome null is and everyone who isn’t one of the grand poobah’s are just beneath notice.

The thing here is, I don’t care about being “lesser in capsuleer power”, and it’s adorable you think that I’m having an inferiority complex about this. I’ve never had any grand aspirations to get to that place. If I can be condescending too, I find it concerning that “capsuleer power” seems to be something you cling on to, like a security blanket.

Edit: If Arrendis’ is getting in on this, I swear I’m going to punch a rubber chicken.


(Arrendis) #2255

PIE and Khimi Harar, between them, account for 180 pilots in 4 corporations. A great number of these pilots are currently not serving in active-duty combat-ready capacity. PIE, for example, has estimated that of their 93, they can field perhaps 1/10th of that in any given window.

Curatores Veritatis, on the other hand, is 1500 pilots, across 22 corporations. Unlike PIE and SFRIM, who tend to limit their active combat theaters to the Amarr Empire proper and the so-called ‘warzone’, CVA currently holds 31 systems under its own banner, and has nominal pull in roughly 50 more, as the dominant power in the ‘ProviBloc’ coalition that controls Providence.

Additionally, the nature of null-sec means that if even a sixth of those pilots are not combat-ready, CVA is likely to find themselves critically under-gunned when they can least afford it. So null groups have a tendency to purge inactives from their roster until they return to active duty. Of those 1500, CVA’s active combat roster is probably on the order of at least 12-1300. As such, this represents the potential entry of capsuleer forces an order of magnitude greater than the current forces arrayed in Thebeka.

Where this potentially differs in its impact from say, my involvement, is that CVA is itself nominally an Amarr loyalist group. Their entire alliance has a declared ‘side’ in this fight, and is—at least in theory—at the Empress’s beck and call for purposes such as these. My own alliance, Goonswarm Federation, has no real position on this conflict, and our involvement came only as a result of my own interest, and the objectional behavior of Khimi Harar forces, which has now been corrected.

If CVA were to actually commit to Thebeka, Thebeka would be done in two weeks. More precisely, in exactly the amount of time it took for their wardecs to go live and the Matari structures in the system to explode. And there is nothing any of you could do to prevent that. As Mizhara and Gaven have indicated, it’s just a matter of sheer numbers.

Which, of course, is what has me so interested in their war declarations. They’re not going to commit en masse without ensuring their pilots have weapons-free status on all likely targets in the system. To do otherwise would simply tempt the incredible care and attention to detail common among null-sec pilots. They would essentially be hanging out a large sign reading:

So they’re not going to do that. If they do start throwing around war declarations… that makes them potentially very inviting targets for other null-sec organizations. They’ll either be weak in Thebeka (more likely) or weak back home (less likely), and a few well-placed war declarations from other powers could give them a significant black eye in a very public venue.


(Mizhara Del'thul) #2256

Oh dear gods and spirits, your projection is dire. I know you’re insecure, but you don’t have to look at yourself quite so poorly. If you haven’t noticed, I haven’t been part of nullsec for over a year. I loathe nullsec. It’s one of the absolute worst places in New Eden, full of the worst kind of people. The cowardly bears, the toxic gunmonkeys, the psychotic megalomaniacs and worst of all the “grand poobah” sociopaths that furiously wank themselves to sleep every night imagining they’re doing it onto the throngs beneath them.

I do however very much know their strength. There’s no getting around the simple fact that even their lesser entities will be vastly more powerful than everyone involved in Thebeka, with ease. It really is that simple, and respecting that strength is worthwhile, since they have demonstrably had battleship fleets in highsec counting triple digits before. Ceremonial to be sure, but those guns still work.


(Melisma Ramijozana) #2257

Thank you all for your explanations. I feel much more current on the situation now, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.


(Melisma Ramijozana) #2258

Interesting fantasy you got there. Tell me more.


(Teinyhr) #2259

Alright, let’s look at where this started. “CVA struggles for relevance, more at 11.” You decided to latch onto my quip despite it not being even the first or only one of its kind. I made that quip because I haven’t noticed CVA doing anything of note in years, off the top of my head all I can remember is Vaari’s condemnation posts of them in recent history. Again, granted, I don’t care what null powers do unless they decide to play the schoolyard bully and think that overwhelming those who are weaker is something to brag about. Now they noticed they might make a blip on the Empire’s radar, and jumped at the chance of pretending to be of something we should care about.

For this situation, I hold PIE and SFRIM more relevant, because they don’t spend all their time playing a game of musical chairs in null until it suits them to posture around a bit.

Then, you started painting images about how potentially terrifying the CVA is, essentially doing PR for them. Like I said, fearmongering. “Hope they won’t come in force, that would be bad.” Well yeah, it would be bad, but we can’t really do nothing about that then. Why worry about the what and ifs?
Then you wanted me to respect them. I believe I’ve said this to you before, I don’t consider “being stronger” a reason to respect someone by default. It’s what they do with that power that earns respect, or not. I’m sure that is not an alien concept to you.
Then you quoted a madeup number (at least you didn’t explain where you got it from) about their MILLION soldiers, I still count less than 50,000 with a vague promise for more, maybe.

Again, you were fearmongering on their behalf. Again, you try to appeal to emotion “our people will die to them, waah”, when you’ve all this time done nothing but glorify their supposed power. Well, if they die, they die. You know our hands are relatively tied, all of us on the side of the rebels, but you decide to disparage only me about it. How about direct your anger at CVA then, or Alizebeth, who personally lead forces quelling a slave revolt.

And all the while you’re debating me here, you try to apply your values to me, like they should matter to me. I’ll say again. I don’t respect power for powers sake. I’ve never clamoured for glory. My decision to publicly document my actions in the case of Kahah uprisings was entirely out of character for me, and I won’t do it again, at least not anytime soon.

If you really want to throw kitchen psychology at me, then I’ll return the favour. You crave validation probably more than anyone I know here. You flaunt your ISK by dropping and maintaining a Fortizar in Amarr highsec, and don’t say you don’t flaunt, because I’ve seen you complain PIE and SFRIM not engaging it, because well, they don’t have the resources to do that. I wonder if that is why you’re defending CVA and demanding we respect them, because you’re just like them. You have strength, relatively speaking, in spades above most of the people on these forums. But you use your power childishly, for the satisfaction that you get to push peope around without fear of reprisal.

You can’t have one person not sharing your values, you can’t stand it so bad you just focus on invoking gods and spirits and your delusions that you somehow know me as a person, or my values, or what I’ve done to get this far. I’ll tell you that my sense of purpose and meaning in this universe is far stronger than yours. Stop mewling at me, just because I’m not like you.


(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #2260

In fairness, I don’t think this is an accurate description of CVA.


(Teinyhr) #2261

Perhaps not, I can admit that of most null powers, CVA I can grudgingly respect in some aspects, because reasons. I’ll see if I can word it better.