Orca Industrial Core


(Jack Hibran) #1

Just a random thought I had, and would like some input.

Info:

These numbers are based off all V skills.
Going off solo highsec mining, the most powerful subcap miner is the Hulk(no mining drones) @ 116,645 m3/h, that’s with putting everything in cans and coming back to pick it up later, so realistically the number is much lower. This leaves the next most powerful miner to be the orca with augmented mining drones @ 99,914 m3/h at a much higher cost.

Low/null mining, the rorq with no ic is @ 148,520, t1ic is @ 742,604 m3/h and t2ic 891,125 m3/h.

The idea:

Solo highsec mining is almost not even worth the effort as it takes colossal amounts of ore to financially feasible vs other income methods(Going off current market value, 100k/m3 of veldspar is only worth roughly 16.5m), what are peoples thoughts on a subcap version of the industrial core for Orcas. Since Orcas have no ore compression capabilities unlike the rorq, it would still need to do runs to a station to drop off ore reducing it’s isk efficiency. Reason for choosing the orca is it’s the largest, most expensive highsec mining vessel at over a billion isk once fit for mining.

Stats rough idea:

200% bonus to mining drone yield, no other drone bonuses.
Consumes Heavy Water, 150 per cycle.
Cycle time 5 minutes.
Prevents movement while engaged, making it an easy target for highsec gankers and wars.
No bonus to mining boosts, they stay default as per modules fitted.
Can only be fit on an orca

Conclusion:

With this module, m3/h would increase on the orca to 299,742, and being as the orca can’t carry that much, would have to do station runs resulting in a lower m3/h.


(Nevyn Auscent) #2

The Orca is meant to not be as good as an exhumer at mining. The mining bonus/drones on an orca were added so that the orca still had a role to do in a mining fleet rather than being relegated to an alt that presses warp once, starts boosts and sits there for hours.
This would turn highsec belts into fleets full of Orca’s and exhumers would die out.

Also your cost is nowhere near that unless you super bling fit.


(Jack Hibran) #3

Orca isn’t meant to be as good as a exhumer, but neither was the rorq, things change.

Also, how are my costs off? orca with augmented mining drones as stated above on jita pricing.

Hull: 725m
Large Drone Mining Augmentor I x1 8.5m
Large Drone Mining Augmentor II x2 314m
’Augmented’ Mining Drone x5 225m
Total = 1,272.5m

That doesn’t even include defensive drones, and all the other modules used to fit the ship which just further increase the price. And if you decide to do reprocessing yourself, implants.


(Nevyn Auscent) #4

Now price out the exhumer assuming T2 rigs and Faction mining equipment for maximised yield. Normal fits only use T2 items and often T1 rigs.
And sure, things change, but only when it makes good design sense for them to do so. This doesn’t, it would invalidate an entire class of ships.


(Do Little) #5

The Orca is not intended as a solo or multibox miner. The game doesn’t need a highsec version of the Rorqual.

I used to run a multibox ice mining fleet. A Skiff with full Orca boosts can average 6 loads per hour - allowing for offloading at a station, moving to a new rock and other minor inefficiencies. That’s 90K M3. You’re talking about making an Orca mine as much as 3.3 boosted exhumers - that’s never going to happen. If it did the mineral market would crash!


(Jack Hibran) #6

Only faction/storyline items better than t2 are ‘Aoede’ Mining Laser Upgrades, at 379m per for a 1% increase in yield, not even worth the isk, as for the strip miners, they mine less than the Modulated Strip Miner II with t2 crystals, so basically wasting money for a very marginal increase. The difference between t2 upgrades and faction is approx 5k m3/h. The difference between t1 rigs with t2 drones on an orca and the fit listed above is almost 40k m3/h at a cost of roughly 1.5 Aoedes.

I’m sure people said the same thing with the changes to rorqs, yet you still see miners using them along side.

FYI a hulk with boosts does 195,810 m3/h and a skiff does 122,122, assuming the booster is providing defense against rats, add another 29,704 for t2 mining drones, or 33,304 for augmented for the hulk, for the skiff 27,003 and 30,276 respectively. The proposed module wouldn’t give that much more over what the hulk could provide under ideal conditions.

People said the same thing about rorqs, yet here we are.


(Nevyn Auscent) #7

The mineral market did crash though. And rorqs come with significant downsides that orcas in highsec wouldn’t, plus the belts are more spread out in null.


(Daichi Yamato) #8

No. And saying ‘things change’ doesn’t help make an argument. Just makes you look like an ass.

The rorq change was not a good idea. The mineral market was ■■■■■■ and the rorq had to be nerfed several times. Thats even with the rorq having to make itself pretty vulnerable everytime it wants to use its industrial core. Orcas in hi-sec won’t have that vulnerability. Orcas, even stuffed with ore, are not popular ganking targets.

What you’re asking for is for everyone to multi-box in orcas that mine double a hulks yield and be extremely difficult to gank. It will destroy the mineral market. And make barges obsolete.

Not going to happen.


(Cade Windstalker) #9

High Sec mining isn’t supposed to be super high value and the Orca isn’t supposed to be a super powerful mining ship. Also your yield numbers are off if you think the Orca is second to the Hulk.

The Orca is a boosting ship that can mine a bit. It’s not a mini-Hulk.

High Sec Mining is not supposed to be incredibly perfectly safe, it’s not supposed to be super profitable, and this is not balanced. An Orca anchored in space is harder to bump and almost impossible gank at all profitably. People already mine with Orcas because they’re almost ungankable and they have a bigger ore bay than anything else allowed into High Sec.

No, no, no, and no.


(Jack Hibran) #10

Here’s a post with all the math, you can do the math based on skills and fittings your self, and see it’s accurate to the game.


(Mark O'Helm) #11


It is happening right now.


(Jack Hibran) #12

why active mine in a barge when you can afk mine in an orca. lol.


(Mark O'Helm) #13

Because i make more ice with 5 skiffs and 1 orca then with 6 orcas in the same amount of time.


(Jack Hibran) #14

was a rhetorical question, basically making fun of the fact that there are like 26 orcas afk mining ice in the pic you posted.


(Andrew Indy) #15

I think you have to realize that and Orca in HS is very safe, even fixxed in one spot they are almost unkillable (easily get 500k EHP), if you are in a War Dec you just dont siege up or fly somthing else every other time you are safe.

A Rorq in NS is an easy target for any medium sized gang , no Corcord for saftey and when you die you lose billions.


(Tiddle Jr) #16

I agree to have an Orca boosted in cases:
lack of ore & minerals supply
exhumers got sky rocketted in prices without payback in buffed stats.

Besides that we don’t need uber tanky untouchable shovels covered belts and suck those dry within couple of hours.

Current mineral prices are fine not sure why do you want to oversupply markets.


(Jack Hibran) #17

I see this argument several times in this thread, but as @Mark_O_Helm posted above with the picture, it’s already happening. Anywhere that can be easily afk mined, such as ice belts, you will see orcas. Not because they are more efficient at mining, but because people can literally set drones to mine repeatedly for extended periods of time without the requirement of a hauler or to dock and unload.


(Tiddle Jr) #18

As I said before in the past threads don’t blame the players, blame the system. We only have afk folks because they allowed to use such way of activities if CCP put restrictions on afk piloting, then it’s gone.


(Daichi Yamato) #19

And you want them to be easy to afk with AND better at mining than barges.

Which is why this will never happen.


(Cade Windstalker) #20

Those numbers don’t factor in the drone travel time. Functionally speaking the Orca is somewhere between the Mack and the Covetor even if you’re absolutely at 0 on a rock.

Also the Orca falls below every single mining barge or exhumer when boosts are factored in, which the Orca doesn’t benefit from, which means if you have even a few as two mining ships you’re better off with one Orca and one Miner than two Orcas.

Yes, but you can make more ISK using an actual miner and being active.

The proper response to AFK gameplay isn’t to buff it and make it better.