Outgoing, gallant Destroyer Seeking adventurous Relationships

Communications Center General Discussion
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The world of EVE Online is full of possibilities and challenges, where players can immerse themselves in a universe filled with space battles, political intrigue, and economic warfare. One of the most popular and versatile ships in this universe is the Catalyst Destroyer class. With its powerful weapons and unique design, this ship has become a favorite among players for both solo and fleet operations.

However, there has been some debate among players about whether or not the Catalyst should have drones. Some argue that drones are unnecessary and take away from the ship’s primary role as a damage dealer. Others believe that drones are essential for the ship’s survival and versatility in different situations. We will explore why I think drones are crucial for the Catalyst.

First, let’s take a closer look at what the Catalyst Destroyer is all about. This ship is designed to be a nimble and agile vessel, with a focus on close-range combat. It is equipped with powerful hybrid turrets, making it a formidable damage dealer in any battle. The Catalyst also has a decent amount of tanking ability, making it an ideal choice for solo PvP or small fleet skirmishes.

Now, let’s consider the argument against adding drones to this ship. Some players argue that drones would take away from the Catalyst’s primary role as a damage dealer. They believe that the ship’s lack of drone bay is a good enough balance vs its powerful hybrid turrets damage output.

While this argument may hold some weight, it neglects to consider the added versatility and survivability that drones can provide to the Catalyst. In EVE Online, adaptability is key to success, and having drones at your disposal can greatly enhance your chances of survival in unforeseen situations.

One of the primary advantages of using drones on the Catalyst is their ability to deal damage without putting the ship in harm’s way. The Catalyst’s close-range combat role puts it at risk of taking heavy damage, but with drones, it can maintain some distance while still dealing damage to the enemy. This is especially useful in situations where the enemy is using long-range weapons, and the Catalyst needs to maneuver to get within its optimal range.

Furthermore, drones can also provide support in situations where the Catalyst is facing multiple enemies. While the ship’s hybrid turrets may be powerful, they are limited in their targeting capabilities. Drones, on the other hand, can be assigned to different targets, allowing the Catalyst to deal damage to multiple enemies simultaneously, enhancing its targeting possibilities. This can greatly increase its effectiveness in fleet battles, where there are multiple targets to engage.

Another crucial aspect of EVE is resource management, and drones can play a significant role in this aspect as well. The Catalyst has a limited number of ammunition it can carry, which means that it may run out of supplies during prolonged battles. By using drones, the ship can conserve its resources and extend its combat capabilities. This becomes even more critical in long-distance operations where resupplying may not even be an option.

Moreover, drones can also act as a buffer for the Catalyst’s tanking abilities. While the ship does have decent tanking capabilities, it is not invincible. In situations where it is taking heavy damage, drones can be sent out to distract the enemy or act as a shield while the ship repairs itself. This can buy valuable time for the Catalyst and increase its chances of survival.

Aside from these practical benefits, having drones on the Catalyst also adds an extra layer of strategy and complexity to gameplay. Players must carefully manage their drone bay space and decide which type of drones to use based on their playstyle and the situation at hand. This adds a dynamic element to battles and allows players to adapt their tactics on the fly.

Ultimately, the decision to add drones to the Catalyst should not be based on whether or not they take away from the ship’s primary role as a damage dealer or arbitrary game balancing. It should be based on the ship’s overall effectiveness, versatility in different situations and the Gallente’s well-known use of drone-supported ships. The addition of drones can greatly enhance the Catalyst’s survivability and effectiveness, making it a more well-rounded and faction-accurate destroyer.

In conclusion, a drone bay on the Catalyst would not break the game but enhance the tactical possibilities of the ship and would put it on the same level of the other factions’ destroyers.

Thank you for reading.
Good night
And good luck.

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I think you’re ignoring the fact that destroyers such as the Catalyst are designed to put out as many bullets as possible. A drone bay would be funny on the Catalyst, but I doubt the primary users of the catalyst (we all know who those are) would actually both to use it. Again, funny idea, probably not going to be terribly useful. But, I don’t see any actual downsides or reasons to not slap a drone bag on the catalyst, so sure, why the hell not.

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I think the O.P is as complete as can be.

funny!!
Do I look like I’m joking? How would the Catalyst be funny with a drone bay? The other destroyers don’t look funny with their drone bay, why would the Catalyst do?

The Catalyst is a Gallente ship. Do you have a problem with us Gallentians?

Or do you mean the Space Big Bad Wolves? I hear they can control other capsuleers’ emotions. Oh god that’s so sexy!

Probably you didn’t understand the topic.

So in fact you’ve got no argument, point or clue.

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Algos: “Am I a joke to you?”

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Yes, because I didn’t want to read a college essay’s worth of why you think a destroyer should be able to put out slightly more bullets. I don’t give a damn what happens to the catalyst, I don’t get ganked enough to care and I certainly don’t use it enough to care either.

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Yes, Hound, any reduction in turret damage dealing would affect the numbers for gankers. I cannot speak to the other considerations, for I’ve never used the Catalyst in any other capacity.

At the moment, solo ganking barges (for example) usually requires an absolute minimum of 4 damage dealers (all Omega accounts) and, in addition, a scout, a warp-in and a looter (though the last two roles can be combined). It’s quite a commitment.

If the damage dealing is reduced - and there’s no way we’d get combat drones without also being nerfed in the guns - there might well be a need to train up an extra damage dealer - at significant cost. The numbers are very tight indeed.

As I said, I can only speak about this from a ganking point of view, @Yuzima. I did read the whole of your post though, and I’d be interested to see what other folks think - and what, if anything, could replace the good ol’ Cata as a cheap reliable ganking platform.

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Get off the forum then.
Undock for a change :slightly_smiling_face:

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Get out of my head and stop stealing my thoughts.

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I love how you conveniently removed the part where I complained about how much text there was and not the fact about reading. You can call me anything you damn well want, just make sure you’re being totally honest about it

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Thank you.

Yep, that’s why I took the time to make the O.P as complete as I could make it - according to my limited understanding of the game, my faction, the ship’s role, it’sturrets and ammo, its range… I want to know what knowledgeable players think about it.
I’m not interested in anti-gank point of views, especially when there is no point ever forthcoming.

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I assume I’m dealing with people who have finished high school.

Calm down, miner.

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What you are looking at is the issue of people sitting at range with a long point that are able to hold the Catalyst with impunity, I have done this every so often and it is fun, though this is also something I do to arty thrashers, tracking disruptors for the win.

There are two answers to this, the first is that outside of a ganking fleet if you are with friends you should have a mix of ships that deal with this weakness, but that depends on you thinking about fleet combat and I suspect you are thinking entirely about solo combat.

The Enyo is one example with a single drone, and if it was a single drone it would be fine at a guess, but if it is CCP they would likely reduce the DPS a bit to compenste which would impact it for ganking as Sasha quite rightly pointed out.

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Alright, before we get too salty, I read your entire post and again, I think it’d be an interesting idea to add a drone bay to a destroyer that normally prioritizes turret damage over other types of damage. I don’t know if anyone would actually like it, but once again, I don’t really care. I think PvE players might use the Catalyst more, but other than that I doubt too much will change. It’ll still do a lot of damage, and it’ll still be a pretty good PvP ship.

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The Algos is the ship you want.

It is a Catalyst that:

  • Has drones
    • 35Mbit/sec (full flight of light or mix of light and heavy)
    • 60m3 capacity
    • 42km base lock range (drone boats usually have longer lock range)
  • As a tradeoff:
    • Has 3 less turret slots (and PG/CPU reduced accordingly)
    • But has 1 utility high

It also has a speed/tank profile slightly different than a Catalyst:

  • Catalyst: Slightly faster, slightly smaller, but slightly less tanky
  • Algos: Slightly slower, slightly bigger, but slightly more tanky
    • +50 extra structure HP
    • +50 extra armor HP
    • +50 extra shield HP
    • +4m sig radius increase
    • -20m/s base speed

Whenever discussing changing ships, it’s always a question of balance and tradeoffs. Simply giving a ship drones is not that discussion.

Much of the OP is hard to engage with, because they are generally vague points about theoretical outcomes unlikely to happen in practice (ex: “Catalyst running out of supplies in prolonged battles” – uh, what?).

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Yes, Sasha mentioned the likely numbers of gankers vs the gain of one pilot if drones could come into play.

I understand CCP isn’t the giving kind. Wouldn’t want to look a charity, would we.

I would like to do both. Even in a corporation there are time to solo.

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I would say that with a catalyst if you fail to get on top of a similar sized target from the off and have it scrammed you will likely lose. Which means that you are looking for a single ECM drone to give you the escape possibility. On the Enyo the single drone is 17.8 DPS if doing damage as there is no bonus to drones and no point in fitting drone modules… I guess if you did it for the Catalyst you would have to do it for the other destroyers too, though Gallente are drones. I can’t see CCP doing this personally, they tend to not like giving players too many GTFO options.

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@Io_Koval I’m sitting here looking at the fitting simulation window. The choice is difficult. As you say, there are tradeoffs and not least of which CPU, Power Grid and Cap capacity among others.

The Catalyst is also capable of somewhat long-range attacks, with 250 II t2 turrets and Javelins the falloff range is like 17km; not negligible combined with the speed of a Microwarpdrive.

I understand. I tried to imagine situations I never and maybe also would never encounter in a Catalyst. I am seeking informed opinions and yours and some others have been helpful.
Thank you.

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It would be interesting to try the added tactical possibilities of Catalyst/drones combat/gank/fleet.
Also, the Gallente Federation uses drones; not as much as Amarrians, but they do. Logically speaking, besides all the other technical considerations, the Catalyst is almost an anomaly regarding destroyers and its faction.

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I think the catalyst is the way it is because every faction just has their “more gun than anything else”

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This is by design. Algos, too, but solely via drones.

Both Algos and Catalyst have ship hull bonuses for Small Hybrid Turret tracking speed (application bonuses are typical of T1 destroyers).

The Algos has Drone HP and damage bonus. This is so that the tradeoff of 5 drones and 3 turrets is balanced. For a max-5 skills Pyfa character (aka, what CCP Games likely looks at for balance), the Catalyst’s 3 extra Light Neutron Blaster II’s with Void S loaded is 148 DPS, and an Algos’ 5 extra Hobgoblin IIs is… also 148 DPS. But these DPS damage projections are not equally applied to all distances. Drones give you flexibility, at expense of sometimes not being able to use the 5 turrets at long range. Conversely, using the extra turrets may give less flexibility once fitted, but this lack of flexibility is rewarded with more uniform, consistent DPS of all guns.

Comparatively, the Catalyst’s falloff helps project its damage further, improving versatility of the hull (eg against scram or web kiters for blaster Cat, or better kiting projection for rail Cat).

The Algos’ Role Bonus to drone max velocity is to help ensure these drones can apply to the ships at long range. Likewise, the Catalysts’ Role bonus to optimal range helps ensure its rail (and blaster) fits can apply to greater distances as well.

I think if Catalyst were simply given drones, it would be a buff that put it somewhere above the Navy destroyer variants (ex: Catalyst Navy Issue would be worse) and below pirate destroyers (ex: Mamba).

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