Well I’d scrap all the ’ get your free 1m SP’ nonsense and just add it by default. But the problem then becomes that most noobs have zero idea what to actually skill for. And the converse problem is then that too many ’ here’s one we prepared earlier ’ examples in fittings ( of which there are quite a few now ) might diminish rather than enhance the player’s own learning of how to fit ships.
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They look at me strangely when I tell them I typically run the SoE arc with a merlin (t2 fitted for less than 5M sp). Then I show them how to get Dagan… Same case with the humble punisher with less than 5M sp, you can run 3/10s with that thing. That’s the difference between flying a ship, or hoping that the ship does the flying for you. In the end, it’s up to them, not up to EvE or CCP.
There’s a lot of engagement out there. You have to seek out how you want it.
Even when you find it, doesn’t mean you’re going to win all the time.
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Indeed…lately I’ve had so many engagements lined up that they’ve overlapped and I’ve had to decide which char to log in and which engagement I will miss. When I hear people say there’s not enough going on in Eve I’m just baffled.
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Which is perfectly compatible with assisting new players.
You don’t have to make a full time playstyle out of helping newbros. Just being aware of when you’re interacting with a genuine newbro and not some bittervets new alt.
In EvE one can’t skip steps. Unless you want to challenge the “losses are real” aspect. They can fly their Drake in some other game that is not EvE Online. In EvE you go through the growth and the learning curve. Those who don’t want to do that are free to seek their entertainment where it is more rewarding for them.
Does that sound elitist ? In my longer reply to you a few posts ago I tried to tell you what happens when you put the typical EvE approach to another game. Perhaps our players are of a different level, having gone through our game ?
And believe me. Getting faster into a Drake wouldn’t solve anything. Then the complaints would start about how unfair it is that they lost the Drake.
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The grass isn’t greener on that other side some are on about as well.
I am back in eve in spire of other games “easy access”. It has a cost, that.
RNG. Oherr games will give gear chances once a week. this is how they bait sub time. One can clear the raid 3 months straight…no drop for you. You level capped in a week. That sword of doom is what takes months.
your sword of doom on boss x at 7.5% drop rate. AND…only 1 drops. 6 raid peeps need it, /roll between them. And I am being nice, The say 3 hunters in raid aren’t being loot ninjya’s for once.
They can roll too. that hunter will never really use that 2 hander…but all weapons are technically hunter weapons in wow. They can roll for it too jsut to be male sex organs lol.
Next up is the big time killer. Class reroll. My dk being a master of 2 handers means nothing to a paladin char. they too must level cap. Want a rogue…level them up too. In wrath to have all I wanted…still took me over a year.
DK, paladin, rogue, hunter, priest…1 each at least. Per faction… When I see people make fun of horde I have to go okay…they aren’t talking about blood elves, trolls and orcs lol.
All then needing their gear grinds. and there is the time killer they aren’t seeing.
In eve this char has only learned minny cruiser 5 once. I do not to learn it 1 time for recon (rogue), another time for Hac (warrior we’ll say) and 1 more time for logisictics (healer).
Is cruiser 5 fun to train. Hell no. But it is one time. and I pass eve gear around like its cool. I don’t have to run the same raid 20+ times per char for the sword of doom. this char uses gear a main no longer used from 6 years ago. OR I can buy it If needed.
I don’t understand your comment.
Perhaps you misunderstood me.
Never said you had to retrain a skill over and over for a single toon.
People keep on saying other games get to end game faster.
They don’t in certain ways. 4 sword using classes are…4 relevels of that basically. that was my point. They are seeing class X is trained in like 2 weeks. IT can be. Want another class you reroll that.
Eve has this a bit better imo. Its only the 1 time. Per race granted. But the t2 skills are universal at least. So are supporting skills.
Wrath level still has weapons proficiency. Nothing says fun like taking a whole night farming kills to level weapons skills…again.
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Most people don’t learn the game at all because the moment they decide “Hey, I want to try out this whole Low/Null Sec stuff!” they run into a gatecamp and die. Next they think “Hmm, I should try a shuttle or an instant align frigate!” they run into a smartbomb and die. Then they fly their little pod back to Jita. They might even get podded by a Thrasher pilot that gets off on kicking people when they’re down. At that point they will probably quit.
Player interaction is the #1 reason people quit and the #1 reason people play. The people who quit eject themselves from the game because they only see the shitty side of the community that exists to hamper whatever they want to do. Combine that with the skill system and, for at least the first few months of play, other players are something to fear and avoid.
Then people get told “Join a Corp.” They might naturally ask “where, how, and who?” For that they get almost no direction. They already tried going to low or null and got podded, so why bother joining a corp out there? All of these things they’ve been taught by their experiences inhibit their ability to find a place in the larger cluster. New content appears gated off from them. Old content appears gated off from them. So what do they do? Leave.
Many of even the NPC starter FW corps have helpful people. Militia channel sees the whole faction as well.
Even bittters die in low sec. If no one has intel on gates, sometimes are you the one who says well…one way to find out.
Zkillboard and route checker sites help here. if zkillboard is showing the past hour has been “busy”…chance are not good they stopped for a smoke break.
But sometimes…you find that new fresh gatecamp not on these even.
smartbombs…throw on some shield extenders. I know a stilletto can live 1 machariel bombing a gate. I met them one on an enlistment run to angels. 3 or 4 of them yes I’d be toast. I met one and lived…good enough for me.
Or pick less problematic gates. MOst residents who call amamake home tend to not want to trash sec status smart bombing 24/7. They get messy. You hit friend and foe. And friends don’t like that.
Unlike abhazon. Its fine residents have no issues bursting alll night long. NGL, even bitter vets can avoid that place. It is not whether its camped that is the question. Its a given. Its how many are there…
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That’s a very grim picture you painted there. And perhaps it does happen like that to some rookies. Often they will just simply ignore all the warnings and jump into certain danger. It’s one of those moments that are decisive for being a potential EvE player: do you get back in the saddle or not ? I see both kinds when I’m on the rookie help channel… Some will pick themselves up (“I knew, I just had to try it”), others don’t (“wth is this game, I just got blown up mining Kernite - Yeah, we told you not to go there just yet - Eff this game” etc). Same goes for joining nullsec. You do not just go there and look for a corp. You apply first, get accepted and then go there, in the best case with instructions how to get there safely and what to bring.
Losses are real and they can sting and surprise. And for the uninitiated and proud it’s usually worse to get blown up by a player than by a dumb NPC. All of a sudden it becomes “shitty side of the community” that “gets off on kicking people when they’re down”. And yet at the same time we, as a game community, have the reputation of being surprisingly helpful to new players. If only some of them would listen, and set aside the expectations they developed in other games. We’re not those other games. We’re EvE.
That is very true. And in my opinion the NPE doesn’t exactly guide them either. It’s not because there are AIR tasks that tell you to lose ships, remote rep other ships etc that you learn how to be a part in a real encounter and learn to overcome losses - as opposed to doing those tasks in the safety of hisec, near the undock of a station with a buddy whom you invited to “duel”. The “solution” I had at the time was to move to nullsec. I had more losses than before, of course, but my mind was set on learning to survive. There were plenty of people there to help out and to learn from.
How to solve that ? If I knew that I would hope for ccp to pay me a salary (or appoint me to one of those extra csm chairs, lmao)… But I don’t, at least not without designing a closed off area that people cannot leave until they are familiar with ship loss and recovery - imagine how popular that would be, lol. Now it’s a matter of “some will fit in, most will not”, depending on mental makeup. The game is picky on who it choses to let play.
Ships are ammo…
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Even something as simple as that is only communicated to players by players. Those same other players that newbies learn to fear. If they don’t feel like they can trust people with where they’re going or what they’re doing they may not even learn those tools exist.
The gates a new person picks are probably going to be the gates nearest to Caldari space. Those gates will almost surely get you very dead. I’m starting to believe that Jita itself is a large problem with the game’s structure. It naturally attracts new players and even I feel like I cling to it too much after playing on and off for years.
Still think players quit early because they are not used to or not comfortable to look behind the obvious PvE content. Which in EvE is more like the backdrop.
It took me a few months “leveling up my Raven” from when I started to get to the “click” moment. Then for example I started hunting FW mission bombers in my Taranis for income, sold clone soldier tags for inflated prices at more remote lowsec Concord stations, and started a PI farm in deep NPC nullsec (made a nap with the locals, and leaned how to back-probe WH chains). Beside that I was a regular in BB, Spectre and other NPSI fleets, which taught me a ton.
When I talk to successful newbies, they have this in common, they tried out things “behind the curtain”. For example ninja looting ganks or battlefields, salvaging in Pochven (under massive hunter pressure) are incredible profitable, can be fun, but require few SP nor expensive ships. You learn a ton about the mechanics and moving in dangerous territory, so becoming the “cat” or “wolf” eventually is easy.
Openness, also to outside the box solutions and of course knowledge are key, not necessarily SP or equipment.
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A part of the community has that reputation, and I’m thankful for it. But then there’s also the guys that are quite proud of their bios full of hate mail from people that’ll probably never log in again. Or, my personal favorite, capsuleer 7ao921 that was created to sit in Jita 4-4 with a Howitzer Thrasher, kill pods warping in, and get biomassed after a day of use. Yeah I know, I’m salty. I’ll get over it.
i wonder what you think immediate gratification means
there is a huge difference between a decent paste and a stretched out for no reason without the possibility to do anything else paste
i would like to, but then again you are arguing on a basis like this
“this change cant work with the current system because frighters have 80ms”
you see, IF they would implement smaller systems, obviously they also have to change the speed of ships, its not a simple change, it would clearly need a bit more balancing around that new added feature.
but everytime you disregard the idea without thinking outside the box, you just focus on what you have without taking anything else into consideration, therefore you always just call it a dumb idea, because you are unable to think ahead.
if you would allow for brainstorming some wild stuff, we could ve some fun times actually discussing “what if” things, which may or may not lead to a solution more people can agree on, but you limit yourself to not do that
i’m responding to your ideas as you present them.
i don’t recall you suggesting making changes to ship speeds. if you had, i’d have incorporated that into my response.
and again, I gave you my thoughts on changes to local that may work without causing an exodus of the player base. you have yet to respond.
these are YOUR ideas. not mine. It’s up to YOU to flesh them out and present them as an overall positive. If the basic idea is sound, then you’ll hae people prepared to work with you on them. If the basic idea is terrible, or poorly expressed, it’ll get shot down.
welcome to the eve-o forums. the place you come when reddit seems too sane.
i dont recall reading that, might ve gone unseen in a wild comment spam from everyone
the only thing i remember you saying was that it should be implementet step by step or something alike
what you want is a completly different game … why didnt you play all the games they are provide such mechanics you want ?
overall… your ideas kill the game in general !
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