Penalize "overkill" hulls who enter low-end combat anomalies & cosmic signatures

I feel there should be some kind of mechanic to penalize people in large overkill ships from being able to easily access low-end content. For instance, if someone is in cruiser or above going to do something low end like a pirate hideaway they should not be able to warp in at zero. A warp field of some sort that discriminates based on hull size should block larger ships from entering at zero. Maybe they would be able to arrive at 110km for cruisers, 155km for Battlecruisers and 200km for battleships. And then they’d need to move in from there. These warp-in distances would be tailored on a site by site basis depending on the difficultly level and the intended class of ship.

Also, if possible, severely lower the chance of getting an escalation if the pilot is in an “overkill” hull. This could also create a larger market for escalation contract sales. I see people in larger ships are going for the low hanging fruit when they have other options that those who newer or just prefer smaller ships don’t.

Why this specific change? What is the point?

And for many ships, like an Omen Navy Issue and sniping Sentry Dominixes, warping in at additional ranges would actually be a buff. Because you’re so far away, NPCs would burn straight towards you to try and close the distance, giving them zero transversals. This means you’ll be able to shoot them down even more effectively and apply more damage.

This seems more like a you-problem than an overall EVE Online game problem. But this is hardly enough reason to implement your change (nor does your change actually do anything to address this).

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You think the distance needs to be more?

What are the targeting range of a Omen Navy or sentry drone? 60km standard? 75km with skills? For cruisers, the 110km from zero is like 135km in actuality. So the cruiser has to move in 60km or so to target range. That’s time wasted. In a competitive space what do they go for, something they can warp to zero and immediately engage or the scraps of a frigate already engaging if they’re lucky. And on top of that they are extremely unlikely to get an escalation (or even n elite spawn) for the time spend. It doesn’t allow them to swoop in and immediately engage. Giving people in the appropriate hulls first strike and the advantage. And you can simply have the pirates not engage at those far off distances. It’s an EVE problem. Maybe you don’t care, but I speak with people think it is.

Explain how nothing would change? You think a battlecruiser is going to go in with a 1% chance of escalation, no chance of elite spawn and having to waste time closing in? Especially if there are small hull types in the same system competing and there are hull appropriate sites they could go to?

*laughs in Naga.

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I’m not sure what the concept is behind this proposal, especially in a game that the devs have stated that unfair or unbalanced engagements is ok and that one side has done proper preparation. Since skills can greatly influence the effectiveness of hulls and weapons, a veteran in a small hull may be much more effective than a newer character in a cruiser or BS. Artificially limiting competition and penalizing players who have more invested in EVE whether it’s isk or time seems to be a bad idea.

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All I’m reading here is that you really don’t know what you’re talking about.

You’re attributing your casual playstyle to everyone else who is already beating you at the game by playing it more efficiently. Not everyone is as bad at the game as you are. Your change doesn’t even make sense to address the issue you’re mad at.

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There is no such thing as overkill, just more efficient. :wink:

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I would warp in to “your” anomaly (since for some reason you think that you own it), in an appropriate-sized covert ops cloaked ship, wait for you to kill the officer or overseer, then grab the loot and warp off…

Or I would start remote repping the officer or overseer faster than you can kill it. Just for you…

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How far out can your Naga target, sir? 220ish km?

Wow, petty insults? You really have no substantive critique, huh?

You could do that with our without the changes. So what’s your point other than being toxic on the forums? No such thing as simply disagreeing is there?

The concept is that certain sites are designed for certain hulls. You see this in other types of sites as well which have hull size limits applied to acceleration gates. If what I proposed were implemented nothing would stop, say, a confessor from competing with a coercer, or an iskhur from competing with a velator.

Exactly. If CCP wanted to limit what ships could run a particular piece of content, they would do so. But after all this time, they haven’t. Makes me think that this is working as intended. In fact, I don’t view it as a matter of “overkill,” but as a matter of picking the best available tool for the job.

Now, you didn’t mention it, but I’d bet isk that the impetus for this post was that you were out-competed in one or more sites. So let me be clear, this is a competitive game -and this holds true for both PvP and PvE. Thus, rather than trying to lobby for CCP to reduce competition and player interaction, I suggest you look for ways to come out on top. Here are a few suggestions.

  • Train your skills
  • Optimize your fit. Note that that I am not implying that you should slap some bling on it. While blinging is an option, I actually mean that you should figure out the best fit for your price range.
  • Move into a more powerful ship
  • Overheat your guns on the main loot drop in order to maximize the chances that wreck becomes white to you. Note that it used to be that the wreck would become white to whoever landed the killing blow, but I remember hearing that CCP changed it to who did the most damage. However, I don’t have a source for this, and don’t know if it applies to all content, or just certain things. Regardless, the more damage that you do, the more likely that you are to get the wreck.
  • Prepare to snatch the loot as soon as it drops (i.e. get within loot range before the rat/structure dies, make sure you’re on the right overview tab, or have wreck brackets set to show in space). Note, however, that you should not loot yellow wrecks unless you are prepared to fight, or think you have a reasonable chance of getting away.
  • Not every site requires you to kill every rat in order to get a crack at the notable loot drop(s). Learn what you need to kill, and skip the rest.
  • Improve execution (i.e. learn hotkeys, switch ammo as appropriate, figure out optimal target priority) in order to reduce site completion times. The less amount of time you spend in a site, the less chance that a competitor will come along.
  • Run sites in a quieter area of space
  • If your schedule allows, run sites at a time when there is less competition.
  • Prioritize running sites that spawn escalations. It’s faster to scan down ded sigs than it is to get ded site escalations by running anoms, but you are far less likely to be found by competitors when running escalations (they’ll need to use combat probes to scan down your ship).

And, not for nothing, but I have been outcompeted by cheaper ships before. Years ago I used a Stratios, and had “my” loot stolen on 3 or 4 separate occasions by a guy that flew a worm. Ugh, that guy used to piss me off. lol. But I learnt, and got better.

Finally, you’ll probably have more fun and find more success if you view adversity as a challenge to be overcome, and problems as a puzzle to be solved.
No P2W

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Not sure what the point of this would be.

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I’d have to log and check, but I can kill rats at least 220km out with iron.

Targeting is somewhere near 300.

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That’s not the point. If you don’t agree with such a change that’s cool. But this isn’t about “efficiency” or being butthurt. It’s about structured content. X is for the beginners, Y is intermediate, Z for advanced type scheme. Being able to do and benefit from noob content is asinine imo. For instance, in most MMOs you don’t really benefit as a lvl 90 doing start zone content. Not the best comparison, but perhaps you understand what I’m saying. There is a lack of risk/cost vs. reward in the current system. There is also something to be said about the general lack of A.I. and NPC tactics, but that’s a different topic.

You’d lose that isk. I’m flying an ibis right now and I plan to fly it until reach a level of content in which I can’t. Then I’ll move to frigate, etc. I like a challenge so “efficiency” is meaningless to me. I’d fall asleep playing “efficiently”. I wouldn’t say I was out-competed because anyone in a kestrel, tristan etc. could potentially out-compete me. As I mentioned to another person, there is nothing stopping an Ishkur or Confessor (both being small hulls) from entering in the same space as a lowly corvette if the changes I brought up were implemented. I’d be far more worried about them than any Thorax or Omen. I’ve had no issues so far in term of clearing sites and in recent memory I’ve held my own in direct competition with a Drake. And in another instance I simply stole the loot and bounced when Vexor came into a site I was doing and triggered an elite spawn. He was so fat and sloppy in his “efficiency” that it never occurred to him to target me in advance. See, this is the problem. People are projecting their own mentality onto me. The only time you complain may be when you’re inconvenienced so you apply this thinking to everyone else. This is purely a structural critique of gameplay mechanics.

I’ve been quite successful.

There is a bit of irony here. “Efficiency”, as it has been defined here, is the opposite of challenge. You literally have people here bragging about how they over compensate for their lack of skill with ships that are very much overkill for the content they are doing and calling it “efficiency”. When I see a battlecruiser doing content I could do in my sleep in a corvette… that just seems off to me. I’ve even seen entire fleets of medium hulls doing a single hideaway. Those pilots should have no incentive to be doing that. Maybe it’s the MMO traditionalist in me, but I instinctively feel embarrassed for that person.

Targeting wouldn’t be the issue. What you could actually hit would. So you’d suggest a flat distance across the board for ships exceeding the hull limit; like 300km? Unless specific considerations where taken for specialized medium hulls like the Naga. I believe 194+30km (224km) is the max firing range (i.e. no amount of modules will allow you to exceed that).

It has been mentioned. You may not agree with me, but I clearly stated what the point is. If you honestly need further clarification my reply to Shipwreck_Jones above should elaborate.

I wouldn’t suggest anything. I disagree with your entire premise.

Edited formatting

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Penalize “overkill” hulls that enter high sec ice anomalies. When a player enters a high sec ice belt with an Orca, Freighter, and 14 Skiffs, that player should have their mining cycle times increased by triple, and their efficiency cut in half. This will help even the playing field for those players who don’t have access to those kinds of ships and fleets.

This makes about as much sense as what you are suggesting…

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