So how can I destroy your little private station if your corp is not wardeccable and come out with a profit if you don’t defend it properly?
thats the point, its not easily killed in high sec. in the same way its not easy to kill anything in high sec. so that people dont go wrecking newbies or carebears stuff and getting them to quit. in the same way that you cant make a profit canking newbie miners. only being able to put one in a system and skill locked so you can only have 5 max is the population control.
remember the whole miner ganking rush wasent profitable in highsec, e.g. killing a hulk is a 320mil kill, but only drops 15 mil of loot. and it takes 5 catalists to do it that will be lost and cost 12 mil a peice. so 5 people ganking manage on a good day a target every half hour, thats 30 mil and hour for them or 6 mil each per hour. mining veld in 1.0 makes more money than that.
What you plan is invincibility. Because whatever your structure would be, you would want it to have so much hitpoints that you can’t kill it before CONCORD arrives, at least not without sacrificing billions in ships. But you probably don’t want it to cost billions or drop much of value so basically no one is ever going to attack it and you can just sit there and farm forever, probably avoiding the taxes of the guys who managed to place and protect a POCO on the planet as well.
Sorry, terrible idea.
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Just mute him, then you wont have to read his comments.
Thanks for the clarification
Yeah, that sounds good. Pi extraction makes sense to do strictly on planets (except for organics, which could be grown in space,) but it does seem weird that you’re forced to do pi manufacturing on planets.
I suppose CCP should allow players to do that manufacturing in stations too, as well as your suggustion
The cheapest route should probably always be planet side, since labor costs should be lower there, but having that alternative method of construction would be good for relieving bottlenecks.
Yeah, having some small scale manufacturing would be decent. Maybe the structure in question would use the module format, so you can decide what kind of services it has and they could be modified in a similar way ships can (I’ve not played around with the citadel interface, so I’m not sure how back end for the station services work for those.)
Anything in space needs to be destructible. It would be pretty abusive otherwise, especially if it has something like a tether mechanic (which is should probably have if the stated design goal is for a pos replacement.)
My suggestion for this is to just add another reinforcement timer on top of what the mobile depot has. That will give the player time to unanchor the structure and move it before it gets ripped down.
This will mean it will be hard for active players to have their structures destroyed, while also preventing mass proliferation.
That’s a non-starter. Just use the mobile depot mechanics, aggressors get suspect flagged, and the structure will go through a couple reinforcement timers (perhaps that timer will be dependent on whether or not there’s stront in the structure) before it can be destroyed.
This is fine.
I agree that this part of the proposal isn’t acceptable, but lets not nuke the whole thing for this specific reason.
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i dont mind it costing a billion though i think 3 to 400 mil would be a better trade off. i think. as for farming, with the exception of going between the station and the planet, how dose it create more protection than you already have.
Pi is already warp in and out, and it would still be limited for producing more things the same way planet based PI works, so its not like you can make much more over the standard farm. and remember it cant sit there and farm forever, it would need fuel. if you want more complex things your going to need multiple planest, so you still need to jump about.
As for the guys that placed the customs office, they are an allience with over 1000 members usually, they dont notice the difference in income of 100k a week.
but again remember this idea existed, thats what alot of high sec poses where, a 3 member corp, all one guy farming a moon instead of PI. it isint a new just a refinement of an old one.
Yup I agree with you that invincibility is not a good idea, but Rail below had a better idea
that is brilliant ironically i hadent thought about the POS mechanics! and as you say overcomes the invincibility, though if its to be geared more towards newbies, id gofor a weeks reinforcement timer so people only online at the weekd have time to sort their stuff out, but make it require stront like the old pos’s.
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the truth is harsh … and ppl who dont understand will only see i´m rude ! but you cant say anything to anyone who only say “but i want it stomps with his feet”
no it hasnt … a station only for the active player will result in a massive spam of such structures ! this lead into massive server lag and nobody is able to play this game because its a lagfest !
and still out of the hardware problem its not a good idea … if any player can setup his own privat place to be 100% safe will lead into a massive decrease in risk ! and less risk = less good game …
then create your own corp, shoot POCO´s and setup your own ! then its your private POCO …
i´m abusive if i say your idea is ■■■■ because ?
you dont think about all situations … you dont bring any basement of your idea like, hows the timer situation ? will it have a dps limit if its got shot ? can you fit this thing ? how can you fit this thing …
which materials you need to construct it and how much it will cost at the end ?
instead all you say is … “but it would be cool and i want it” nothing more … how can you ecpext a constructive discussion about such nonsense ? bring some value into your idea !
now you want complete mix of POCO and engeneering complex only for privat usage ? lol …
maybe a doomsday on your personal structure that you can defend it by yourself against a whole fleet ?
sure xD not destroyable in a PvP game wich is all about destruction … like i said … you only want YOUR private 100% safe space !
why hard to destroy ? it would be the smallest “station” so it need to be the easiest station to destroy …
your idea is realy ■■■■ … lead in massive spamm of undestructbale stations and all other stations will be packed again …
and if you corp dont have structures that you can be wardecced ? how can you kill your 100% safe space ? you cant with your idea !
i have an advice for you ! if you dont want them to be “wardaccable” then anybody should shoot them only with a suspect timer !
again … “i want my 100% safe space and you cant nothing do against it” … i know i´m repeating but your idea get worse and worse …
you cant handle facts 
then ignore ppl which bring facts that show your idea is ■■■■ !
in which universe ? in your own private universe ? if you think about it then you all would see that this idea is ■■■■ … but youre all lazy and absolutley risk averse so its clear that you need to bring up an idea wich is so overpowered …
your station need to be cost about 2,5 b that its not common to spam this stuff into space !
The point is, even adjustments that make it somehow balanced wouldn’t be acceptable for him at all, because they would go against his initial plan, which is:
- do PI outside the planet, so he doesn’t have to pay taxes to the guys who placed the POCO
- make the structure invulnerable or incredibly nasty to kill, so he can always get away with it without much losses, even if the guys who placed the POCO would want to do anything about it (aka you can’t wardec, you can’t really gank and with a RF-timer he has absolutely zero risk, because he can empty and probably even unanchor the station before something bad happens. A long timer even makes sure others can’t “camp” his structure effectively, they will always go offline at some point and then he sneaks in and takes it all down.) No risk at all.
- it creates profit without risk because if he can use PI-mechanics in this structure, he frees PG/CPU in the planets that would require factories to do the same. So he can extract more raw resources, export those cheaply and do all the more expensive steps “on his own” in the station.
Conclusion: The suggestion is 100% one-sided in favor of his own interests and leave other players barely any reasonable option to react. It would need so much tweaking and balancing, that he wouldn’t agree with the end result anyway, because that has the downside that someone with a clever plan can make his “station” explode before he can make profits out of it. And thats exactly what he doesn’t want.
AMEN !
and im sure none of the ppl who think the OP´s idea is a good idea will see the problems with this idea ! otherwise they wouldnt say its a good idea …
no the point for for a small shiney base for people like POS’s use to be.
see above where i said , in reply to your comment
but yes the idea was so that its not easy to gank
there is no advantage moneterally for the PI, yes if pi was implimented coul could do more things logistically but thats off set with consumption of fuel, remember how the poses worked, more stuff online more fuel consumption. your not getting a profit advantage. just a logistical one and a cargo container. if it gets more people into pi it lowers the costs.
i already like one of the ideas provided, please dont project your oppinion onto others, espically when you havent bothered to read the last replys which show your statement to be false. Be kind and open mided.
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I don’t think there’s any reason to go that far, at least for the low level version of the structure.
The base price for the entry level option should be around 100mil (or lower) and potentially have higher level versions that are around around the 300, 600, billion isk price points (we’ll refer to them as A, B, C and D.) Perhaps those more effective versions (C and D) could be corp assets that would be wardec-able, while leaving the entry level options (A and B) as personal assets. That way you have your entry level solo operation, and also your mass fabrication options that increase efficiency, so there are reasons to take on more risk for more potential reward.
CCP might even make it so only the highest level of manufacturing can be done in the C and D versions, so they’re susceptible to war declarations (since those are corp assets.)
This isn’t too much of an issue, as it’s merely about economic balance, not a fundamental flaw in the design.
If CCP keeps base rates for doing PI on planets the cheaper base option, but also gives players an in space option it effectively puts a price ceiling on taxes through effective competition on how much people are willing to pay. High poco taxes mean only resource extraction will be done on the planet, and low taxes will incentivize PI manufacturing. This is very much in the spirt of EVE, to allow players multiple ways of doing things.
Further more, I would add even more to the competitive experience, since I want CCP to add more to the planetary gameplay for players.
The following is quoted from post 9 in my thread about a reworked a mission system
So not only would PI be something that could be attacked on the surface of the planet by Vanguard players, it could also be potentially attacked by ships within the atmosphere of the planet.
Another interaction here is players could pick up PI resources directly from the planets, entirely bi-passing the poco entirely (and opening a new branch of smuggler play.) The downside for players in doing this is in highsec, is if the player doesn’t have a state sanctioned mission for the sector of the planet the player is visiting, getting within 100km of the planet’s surface would suspect flag you. On top of that, regardless of what sec level system you’re in, you’d be warp disrupted while within the mass shadow of the planet’s surface.
Opening up more potential options is really only good for the game.
The op said he was on board with the RF timer. I wouldn’t say this is zero risk, the player can sill be ganked when he or she goes to collect resources or when pulling the structure down.
Also, consider the effort in pulling down one of these structures, putting it back up and the setting up all the production lines again. Part of this is about endurance, and shooting the structure takes much less effort.
Furthermore, if CCP includes my concepts about the planetary additions, some of the risk is offloaded to the PI facilities themselves. So, a player could potentially raid one of these planetary based installations, steal the processed mats, and then move them to their own structure in the sky for manufacturing.
I personally would go with 2 standard timers, but this ultimately is something for CCP to balance. So it’s not a structural flaw with the concept. Assuming it’s balanced, it’s ultimately up to the camp to succeed of fail at, just like a wormhole eviction.
So, I already addressed the aspects of the risk factors involved up above, so I’ll not do that here. However I should address the aspect of increased profit. The market will self adjust since these are all products all players will have equal access to. More raw resources coming off of planets isn’t necessarily a bad thing, especially if you consider the potential ability to raid the production lines.
Ultimately CCP isn’t going to add a feature that is one sided, but the idea of a pi manufacturing base in space (which is the core concept) is a pretty good one.
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I am open minded. Kind… well that depends how much of a snowflake you are that can endure a different opinion. Sometimes I am pretty blunt when an “idea” is promoted as “totally nice” while hiding the fact that in it’s core the plan is to implement basically unkillable solo-content that still can affect the economics of the game.
If you want to have a “refitting base” for your solo gameplay where you can dock your ship, repair it, refit it and maybe have 2-3 spare ships for switching them - fine.
The moment you want to do any kind of industry or jobs in there, this structure must offer some legit way for other players to remove it. Either by a wardec or by CONCORD not interfering (like with Mobile Tractor Units or Mobile Depots).
Can’t have both and I won’t back down on this. You can have all your shiny toybase as you like, as long as it is an amusement shing or a QoL thing for you. But if you want to produce there, pracital invulnerability/riskless operation is a NoGo.
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thats a good idea on the cost scaling, also from a dev point of you it means it could be implimented in stages say with a first , look at tewaks, fuel usage, market adjustmesnt e.g. and refine for the release of b., never mind the interlinking with your idea about assulting the ground PI, thats a fair bit of content that could be realeased in stages, and finally make use of that atmo temo they once made.
Agreed.
OP said he was on board with Mobile Depot mechanics. I suggested 2 timers because it’s a much more involved setup.
It also allows CCP to have higher tiers of capability.
And, as I’m always in favor of, it’s an onboarding mechanic. Players can get their feet wet with simple mechanics, and then scale to much larger operations.
Yes, it’s a concept that’s a bit of a guilty pleasure / fantasy of mine. I want as much interaction as possible between their ground gameplay and in space action. It just makes sense to have an expansion around making planets more interactable in the EVE portion of the game.
If he can’t just “scoop” in the station during the whole RF timer but has to fight for it at the end like for any other structure, fine with that. He can empty it, of course. But the station itself should only be unanchorable once it is out of RF again, or repaired. Like any other structure.
Both sides have to know when the meal is going to be hot. If he can just come online any time during a many days timer and just remove everything quickly and so basically forcing any offender to “permacamp” the location for 24/7 for days, thats - realistically seen - again “invincibility” just hidden under the cloak of “but it has a RF timer”.
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Yeah, that seems reasonable.
stating things like
with zero proof and assuming the worst in people is not open minded or kind, its combative and closed minded.
ironically this is what i consider far more overpowered, i spicifically avoided refitting or repairing because having some where that is har to kill, that you can just dock up, repair and undock, is a a hell of an exploit. actually thinking about it, it may be an idea to limit the docking size so that 1 industrial and one ship up to cruser or industrial size can be docked in the second slot, to specifically avoid this being a hot swap canking supplies forum.
as i said above, its not to give an advantage, its a shiney thing, and more geared to solos because i think they need more love. if you go over into the new citizens q&a theres alot of newer players that prefer the more solo or pve life.
hear me out on this though, the practical difference in having a place that would be essentially a second PI place in orbit is essentially doubling capacity, but wihtout the ability to harvest. now you cant attack a pi place, so thats qol and a small profit. now with having to fuel the place, that cuts down on profit possibly halfing it back to what it was in the first place. So all you gain from that side of the idea is more space to store stuff, which would allow more people to do it (casiual players etc), more production is more copetitive ness, and lower prices, which makes lower profit.
invunrability was already mentioned above, but riskless, pi in highsec is already as close to riskless as anything in eve. you dont have to hang by the planet, i dont even do it in the same system, then a run out, pickup and off. a specific place would actually increas risk because people would know someone dose pi there is its online.
yeah thats fair play. the part i want to avoid, because i want it to be new player / solo friendly, would be getting rolled by alliences. e.g. what happened to the customs offices in the first place, wher esome people took over customs offices, then a huge group just rolled through and nuked alot of them.
so something limiting to who can attack, like can flipping. one peoron could reinforce (though if this is possible i think it would be fair to allow the thing to have defences like a high sec pos) and then that person is the one that attack when the reinforcement timer ends. the difference being in limiting how much remote repair can be supplied to that person instead of just one dude rocks up with 20 guardians in tow, theres a hard limit of some type.
just now thinking about that, i thought how funny would it be to have diminishing returns or all remote repair! that would cause a clusterfornication in nullsec!
This is what you can basically do on every NPC station. The abilities on your personal station would just be a convenience to shorten warps to a certain planet you have industry on (in very large systems) or to have a staging station in systems where you simply have no NPC station.
- how much fuel should such a station need per month? (in ISK, roughly)
- would you still have to export the raw-mats via the POCO (and paying tax there)?
- if your station would get reinforced and you would have to cancel your PI jobs, all the resources involved would be lost, like for other industry jobs, you realize that? If Mobile Depot Mechanics would apply, basically anyone can just reinforce it overnight, so you will be hardly do any industry there anyway (you only get suspect when attacking a Mobile Depot in Highsec, is that clear to you? No CONCORD, no standing loss…).
You will probably find your Structure in Reinforce mode (aka all jobs stopped and locked until you can repair it) every second day because some stranger will just RF it with some cheap Kikimoras over night, just to see what you are gonna do about it.
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true, but i immagined it could be exploited in large systems to allow piratess to swap in different place, because we all know where the stations, so theres a small pirate advantage for swapping out hulls rapidly, or even using logoff traps where people can log in and have the ability to choose a setup to bring to the fight. (was a pirate for a while back in the daay, i can see the massive advantage in this over just a station, espically border systems)
not sure, but the scale i thought of was 10 mill per week if its not doing anything, plus the median value of what facility is onlined at the stations production side can do (stats ccp would have) so if say most people with a advanced are makign 10 mil per week, then it would be 10 mil per advance, and the same formula for the other things you online. The idea is that it dosent give you a monitary advantage, just a personal time used advantage.
nope, dont car about funding alliences, but they are still there, and cheaper depending on their tax.
if you have to cancel the pi then sure you loose, but i think that the PI should still run in reinforced mode if you dont cancel because that provides more incentive to fight.
also a good way to balence that, is is fomeone reinforces it its not a global suspect, or it is for the first 15 minutes as usual, but then they are a suspect to the base owner untill the reinforced mode finishes. also if you go the pos idea rout, then the thing could shoot back at someone reinforcing it, and its gonna need a heavy hitter to break its tank. i only had one reinforcement of my highsec pos in the years it was up, and they never came back to finish the job. you could also do what rust has done with the external app giving you an alert if your base is raided so you have the chance to interviene when its happening.
i think it needs a bit more though, but i still think it could be something