Yep. I was using a phone app to look at it, but i think it’s right, it has more grid than a brutix or a cane yes?
Not by much granted, but it’s a shield gun boat and the brutix and cane are typically armour fit with grid heavy plates or repairs.
Nerfing the grid seems a better solution to me than breaking consistency and shortening the 10% optimal bonus to 5%.
Wow I see what you mean Ferox has ton’s of fitting space.
Here is a list of powergrid values from the tranquility market tab:
Harbinger: 1425 and the winner is…
Prophecy: 1100
Drake: 830 <- this is way to low and must be increased by the love of Jamyll, why does CCP hate Caldari so much??
Ferox: 1150 (was 1250 before February 2018)
Brutix: 1125
Myrmidon: 1050
cyclone: 1100
hurricane: 1140
I just made a railgun buffer fit with 250mm railguns and no, you cannot fit it all without a fitting mod.
Best you put your empty claims in the attic.
The drakes grid is fine. It can still fit a full rack of T2 heavy assualts, meta mwd and two T2 LSE with no fitting mod. (it actually runs out of cpu which is why it cant use a t2 mwd)
Edit- like seriously, the only way to run out of grid on a drake is with triple LSE’s or a medium neut.
Ferox can fit full rack of T2 250’s, 2x T2 LSE, and a T2 AB with no fitting mod. Swap a low (which is likely a third mag stab or a TEnhancer after a TC is already fit)for a power dag and you can fit a meta mwd.
I’m aware I’m not a fitting guru, but the choices the ferox has to make doesn’t seem as harsh as the other bc’s.
A brutix or cane can’t use their biggest guns, even if they down size their armour plate, rather than just fit a power dag or reactor control. A cane that wants to fit even 650’s has to use a compact 800mm plate and a meta mwd.
Or a shield cane has to have a reactor control and a single LSE to fit any kind of prop mod with 720’s.
And a harby has the usual cpu problems. And must down size the armour plate to fit largest beams.
Again, i am far from experienced in fleet war and fittings, but this could be why its so dominant in fleet meta as other fleet fit ships have a harsh choices to make where the ferox seems very easy.
I had like an extra 100 cpu after fit, but then again not sure what the meta fit is.
Then it isn’t properly fit. The proper fit would need one ancillary current router to make it fit.
I cannot make a mwd fit without removing the damage control or one magstab for a power diagnostic system.
I agree and some powergrid issues too. One may want to have a 1600mm plate on.
Why would you fit a plate on a kiting ship? I use one ancillary current router and a reactor control but then you can fit heavy neutron blasters just fine.
She may be a tad low on overall armor resistances but the reps can make up for that.
I can’t say much about matar.
Please make an active tanked fit, which uses a mwd. I’ll wait.
Just any active fit?
6x hams
Mwd
Med cap battery
Web
Invuln field
LASB
Long point
2x BCS
1x Nano
1x MGE
3x resist rigs.
Full rack T2 hams, LASB and a T2 mwd all fits with enough grid for a T2 medium cab battery to help it run for over 5 minutes. No fitting mods. In fact it was, again, cpu that became a problem first.
The only reason the nano is there is because I’m not allowed a power dag. It’s really a spare slot that can be utilised to turn the battery into a booster. Not the same as a restriction or trade off because I’m not really doing anything with that low slot (except maybe a Nano or extra MGE).
I don’t see what grid issue an active drake is supposed to be facing.
Drake does not apply damage instantly and is therefore not usable in big fleet battles. If someone get’s redboxed, logis will immediately lock that guy and start repairing, so if your damage then takes like 5s travel time to land the target will be impossible to kill at that point.
Also armor fits won’t work. If you get below 1100 m/s - and rigs will always get you below that - the enemy fleet can just keep you at range. At this point you would have to start the scan & jump game, but since plates do slow down your align time the enemy will have the advantage all the time. This is the reason why all fleet BCs are currently exclusively shield-tanked.
And these two things are the main reason why the Ferox is so outstandingly good in fleet battles: range, massive shield EHP, all the low slots free for shenanigans.
This is an example all-five fit for the Ferox (60m Jita price), just so you know what I am talking about:
[Ferox, Doctrine T2 Ferox++]
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Large Shield Extender II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Pithum C-Type Thermal Dissipation Amplifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pithum C-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
EM Ward Field II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
The combination of 70+ resist on all with highest resist vs. railguns means it has no weakness, excellent resists vs. the most common damage type in fleet battles, and a huge buffer for logis to work with.
All other BCs will have either an EM resist hole or thermal hole when shield tanked, simply because they just don’t have the slots to fit enough resist modules. On top of that easily exploitable weakness they also have ~20k less EHP and less range.
I am sorry but that won’t even tank a pulse Harbinger. And what is this supposed to do, level 3 missions??
“Give me an active fit”
“Oh, that active fit doesn’t count because I’m adding conditions to my request, without ever showing that these conditions are relevant”
…
Well it should at least be feasible, we are talking pvp here. Would you fly that Drake and 1v1 a Harbinger?
Show me the harbinger fit that is repping through the HAM’s (without being some utterly silly fit).
If you are going to set conditions, then you need to be setting realistic conditions and actually announcing them beforehand.
Its only a double BCU drake, not even triple. Id fight it in my buffer harb that does 700+ dps. Dont need reps when that would melt under any kind of dps.
Also, a single LASB is not an active tank. Its a buffer extension. Dual LASB is kind of an active tank. Cap booster+shield booster is active.
You arent tanking anything as there is no sustainability. It also leaves you open to alpha blowing right through any repping youre doing.
But missiles also have a benefit, the drakes can fire for a bit then have a command desi boosh them closer and keep firing then you will have 2 stacks of volleys on top of each other landing at the same time.
Did i not mention that I’m no fitting guru?
You wanted an active drake and you got one.
I didn’t see anywhere that it must be able to tank a certain harbie fit.
And honestly why does the drake have to be able to active tank a harby exactly? Does every battlecruiser have a fit that can beat everything else in every situation?
Is there a passive cyclone that will wreck a passive drake?
If you manage to pull that off with 250 ppl in your fleet while at 10% TiDi then I pull my hat before your excellent FCing. Most big fleets fights however consists of just sitting there and hitting F1 while being stuck to the FC, because TiDi make any form of maneuvering close to impossible, simply because the enemy fleet has literally minutes to react to it.
When I warped off 1.2 AU to dock in the last battle it took almost 14 minutes from the point I hit warp until I was docked at the station.
Daichi,
I wasn’t trying to call you out on anything. The reality is that the Drake in her current form has ONE viable ham fit and CCPlease made sure that there is no other way to fit one.
If you recall Kil2’s youtube channel, he was flying that ham fit I am talking about, so my guess is that this influenced the “balance” either consciously or unconsciously.
However, one option is a little few for my taste.
If you take a Harbinger for example, you have a ton of options how to fit one, either with a plate and a giant armor buffer or a dual-rep tank, which I recall is very active and very viable.
Looking at a Brutix, the local rep bonus is an inbuilt exile pill booster which you can extend upon with, I said it, an exile pill booster and is also very active.
If I am not mistaken @Stitch_Kaneland, I just gave an avid new pvper a fitting advice for his active tanking hurricane and I don’t even fly minmatar.
I know you read a lot here, so I assume you read my comments from time to time and I recently mentioned putting capital shield boosters on cruisers, which sounds sarcastic of course and I wanted to make a mockery out of those whom came up with them.
Again, I am not calling you out but I know you are in EVE long enough to see what I am trying to make a point of.
If you open your pyfa or eft or whatever, even on the ingame simulator, you cannot fit the Drake with a large shield booster, mwd, medium cap injector, invulnerability field, web and scram and then put 6 ham launchers on her without severely running out of cpu and a load of powergrid.
I don’t have any trouble fitting a (as in one) fitting mod on a ship to make a fit work, so that the fitting mods have a purpose but if you try the above, you will see what I mean.
If you have been in a fighter before you also know, that a large shield booster on a battlecruiser is not enough to tank even a destroyer long enough.
And you also know that most active armor fits have little problem using 2 medium reps, the Drake is like many shield ships forced to fit one shield booster and I don’t even have to open a fitting tool to know that you cannot win any fight with that.
So that leaves the buffer-ham fit which is forced to use 2x compact shield extenders to fit a mwd. Fitting 3x ballistic control II’s is already taking 120 cpu away for your fit as well, so good look fitting a meta 4 scram.
I’ll just bow out i think. I don’t solo with bc’s and the likes. Where i live I’d be starved of targets.
Not convinced however that the drake has grid problems or that it cannot fit a decent active fit is a serious problem.
And then there was this guy who didn’t knew that and just did it:
[Drake, Tanky Drake]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
[Empty High slot]
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Acolyte II x5
Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile x1200
99.44% CPU, 98.31% PG at all-5 skills.
And where did he fit the third ballistic control, I don’t see it. And where is the command link?