Please reconsider the upcoming new bookmark system

Hi EVE-Onlline devs and players, I’m Janus from Goons. I’m here to share some of my thoughts of the old and new bookmark systems.

I was told that in the future BMs can no longer as physical objects, and I think it’s a bad move. Because some of the bookmarks, more specificly escalation sites, have a certain price tag, and we want to trade them.

I’ll esplain the current mechanics in case you’re not familiar:

  1. One player gets an esclation site (for example a 10-10) when ratting, and wants to sell it to another one;
  2. He or she goes to that site and bookmark the accelaration gate, drops the bookmark into a nearby structure’s hanger;
  3. Create a open contract of the bookmark with a price of 100M;
  4. Then the contract is dragged to a trading channel;
  5. Another player accepts the contract, makes the payment and gets the BM at the same time;
  6. Then the second player goes to the system where the escalation site is located, and starts to do the site.

As you see, physical BMs play a vital role in these trades, making them safe and easy. This game mechanic has been adopted by most major alliances for years. For example, in Imperium, there are contantly 200+ players in our escalation trading channel, waiting to sell or buy the sites. I’ve discussed these issues with players in this channel and they all think the changes will cripple their way of gaming.

Nevertheless, I believe most changes to the current BM system will greatly enhance the gaming experiences of most gamers. But in this particular situation, it’s better to keep some old features, just like the physical bookmarks, unless you have an alternative solution that is equally convenient.

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There is no need for the bookmarks to be physical items, necessarily. If “notes” could be included in contracts then you could include the link to the bookmark that way.

I agree. The only way I’d be okay with bookmarks no longer being physical objects is if CCP gave us some other way to trade them. I’m an explorer and these types of bookmarks can be very valuable to people like me.

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Lol. 200 people is nothing of significance to actually base game design on.

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From a database standpoint I can only imagine that the individual “note” items that are bookmarks are shear hell. In the new iteration there is a finite and organized mangement of storing them for each player.

While this is true, the design is already there; we’re asking to not change it.

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Considering that amount is just from one source, I’m sure the actual amount of players who don’t want that change is much larger.

And as an explorer myself, I definitely don’t want physical bookmarks to be removed either.

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From what I just saw on sigularity server, neither physical notes nor links to the bookmarks is available. Basically no easy way to do this properly.

Yes, CCP has remained silent on the issue. I am just hoping that if we can suggest a workaround they might include it at the last minute. They have pretty much said that physical bookmarks will be eliminated.

I wonder if the question is more-so, do they want players easily selling escalations? I’m not saying there is an issue with selling escalations, but perhaps it wasn’t in their intentional plans and they prefer escalation be found by those that want to do them?

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Mission bookmarks are currently, inexplicably un-copyable, so your theory has merit.

After talking with some more informed people than I, the new system isn’t as crippling as suggested. I was first upset as well. The new system uses a shared folder. It is where you would create a folder, and place the bookmark in. Once a character purchased the escalation, you would then put the character into the permission for the folder. This means that both parties HAVE to be online for both to complete the sale of the escalation. There will be no set and forget contracts. That sucks for the escalation runners, as they ca only purchase when the seller is online. It will also suck for some wormholers and explo people…but it is doable. It’s just harder, requires the seller to do something after the sale, and happens to make things harder for some people in Eve. I guess you win some…you lose some. A right click option that will make the bookmark an item could be an elegant way to have both worlds. Obviously depending on how hard that would be to code…

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Unfortunately that is entirely the problem. It’s not really a case of you win some you lose some, it completely destroyed the current system as you can no longer trade between escalations between time zones. With the current 24 hour system in place you don’t even have the option of posting a sale on the forums then contracting in the morning as you could easily run into situations where the time remaining just wont be enough. Now, if they wanted to extend escalation timers to 48 hours, then the new system wouldn’t be nearly as damaging. Depending on how people decide to set it up this could be good for sellers as they could choose to list their escalations as either an auction or FCFS in order of posting.

Or the second option most people want, which is a way to sell the bookmarks directly. Even if it’s a “right-click create contract” option on the bookmark tab itself all people want is a way to sell cross time zone and not have to be online at the same times as any perspective buyer or changing of permissions. Especially if it’s done by folder, not individual bookmark. You’d literally need a folder for each individual sale until the buyer contacts you to let you know they have completed the site and can be removed.

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Isnt it just as easy to make a fake bookmark and sell them as if they were escalations and such? I used this scam a couple times before.

ya, the new system is just as secure as the old system. In the old system, you buy a contract that contains a bookmark. The new system, you have to pay the seller, then the seller adds you to the permission. You can get a fake bookmark or bookmark to nowhere in the new system same as the old.

I was panicked after hearing about this, but once I knew about the new system, i mean it’s fine. The one part that sucks is that in the old system, I was able to search the region for bookmarks on contract. No more doing that. Both the buyer and seller will have to be online at the same time to perform the sale. No more set and forget. As a 10/10 runner, that sucks, but I will live. I just really wish there was a right click option to turn the bookmark into a physical item, allowing us to use both systems, contract way and the new way

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I’m personally not seeing what part of making a Bookmark a contractable item is so difficult. Contracts seem the way to go for trading information of this nature, and also allow for that oh-so-important emergent gameplay that CCP talks about but only seems to be able to eliminate from their game, not create.

We have many different kinds of links in the game that can be auo-link looked up, dragged into chat and notes and emails, used to share ship fittings etc. Surely it can’t be that hard to find one kind of linkable info that could be turned into a contract bookmark entry?

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You can pretty much trust the contracts posted to the escalation trading channel because it has access control. Only the super careless players will get scammed.