Shared Bookmarks: Use-case Discussion

EVE Technology and Research Center Upcoming Features & Changes
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Greetings capsuleers!

As we discussed in a presentation at EVE North a few weeks back, we’ve been working internally on a very early prototype for a concept we’re currently referring to as “ACL Bookmarks” or “Shareable Bookmarks”. Today we want to start a conversation surrounding the existing bookmark system and how aspects of it are currently used, as well as getting some feedback on some potential use-cases for the new system.

First off, lets start with an outline of the new prototype as it stands right now:

Shareable/ACL Bookmarks

This concept would be a replacement/extension of the existing bookmark or saved location system, allowing you to create links to locations in space that can be navigated to (through the right click menu or places tab of the People and Places window). Whereas previously, capsuleers could create bookmarks accessible to either themselves or their corporation, this system is designed to be less restrictive and more flexible. In almost all other ways these new bookmarks would be functionally identical to the existing system (for example, we do not intend to change the rules about what you can point a bookmark at).

Bookmarks are stored in folders, which are accessed through Access Lists.

  • Those folders can be shared with your corp, alliance, coalition, friends, whoever you want!
  • Folders can contain sub-folders to allow bookmarks to be further organized (Existing bookmark folders would be converted into sub-folders).
  • Sub-folders are just a one-level organisation tool, they cannot be nested and do not have individual permission settings.
  • Shared folders must be “subscribed” to - they do not pop up automatically.
  • Shared folders can be linked to allow anyone with access to subscribe.
  • There will be limits for how many bookmarks are permitted per folder and how many folders you can subscribe to at one time.

Bookmarks can be set to expire automatically

  • We plan to add the option for a bookmark to be set to expire automatically after some time (from a set pre-determined choices).
  • The option to expire a bookmark may be either at the Folder, Sub-folder or individual bookmark level.

Use-case Discussion

Now that we’ve got the fundamentals of the prototype explained, lets jump into the use-case questions! Please feel free to answer any or all of them, as they apply to yourself. Whenever possible, please try to give us as many specifics as you can about your personal use-cases (Remember that everyone plays EVE differently and no one’s personal experiences are less valid :smiley:)

Question 1 - Bookmark Vouchers
In the current system, bookmarks can be extracted from the People & Places window and converted into “physical” items that can be traded with other players. In what ways do you currently use this functionality that would not be covered by the system detailed above?

Question 2 - Bookmark Expiry Lengths
As mentioned above, when setting a bookmark to expire you will be able to choose from a pre-determined set of choices (e.g. 4 hours, 1 day, 7 days). If you were to choose three options for expiry length, which would you choose and why?

Question 3 - Setting Bookmark Expiry
As mentioned above, we are consider whether bookmarks should be set to expire at the Folder, Sub-folder or individual bookmark level. What use-cases do you foresee where you would utilize bookmark expiry, and of these options, which do you think would be the most appropriate level at which to set this expiry?

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to this thread, we look forward to the discussion!

CCP Lebowski for Team Five 0

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I don’t see an option for Corp/Alliance level ‘folders’.

Capsuleers sharing their bookmarks via ACL sounds like a nightmare for corps that depend on timely passage of bookmarks to other corp members.

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In this case you would set up an access list for your corporation/alliance, and create a bookmark folder that uses that access list :slight_smile:

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Because you’ve given an inch, I feel compelled to ask for a mile. Buckle in!

My ask is in regards to wormholes. All wormholes expire, eventually. Having to manually clear wormhole bookmarks is a task that anyone who does anything with wormholes has to do. In addition to this, any bookmark that is referencing an object (such as a structure, a gate, or a wormhole) has a type_id associated with it, referencing the type of object.

The ask: can all wormhole bookmarks automatically set to expire after a set period of time? It wouldn’t need to be smart; we don’t want a bookmark to divine the exact lifetime of a wormhole. However, after, say, three days? the wormhole is almost assuredly gone. Could a wormhole bookmark self-destruct after three days, or whatever time period makes sense?

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selling BM to someone else. eg. DED sites

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Question 1 - Bookmark Vouchers

Biggest use case that you would lose is selling DED sites to others. It would be a right pita to try and use an ACL to share the bookmarks with singular people if you sell a lot of them or trade in them.

Question 2 - Bookmark Expiry Lengths

1 day, 7 days and 1 month.

Question 3 - Setting Bookmark Expiry

I think that it should be a setting you set when the bookmark is made and attached to said bookmark even after its turned into a voucher.

Biggest use cases i think are bookmarks on wormholes and DED sites.

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Please consider allowing ESI to interface with this, a basic CRUD endpoint for folders would be lovely, and some basic read/delete endpoints for bookmarks themselves would be even more lovely :heart:

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  • 2 days for most signatures. so any wh or wh sig should be set by default to “2d”. Best would be to actually set the wh expiry to its max remaining time (approx)
  • until downtime for most wrecks.
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Create and Update would allow people to make their own safe spots.

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Create and Update would allow people to make their own safe spots.

Please learn to read, my comment clearly says FOLDERS not BOOKMARKS

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Question 1 - Bookmark Vouchers

If I want to give some random player a BM for an interesting location (scanned good signature for example) I do not want to share the whole folder. Just the one bookmark. Creating new folders for one time shares would be annoying. I may also want to receive money for the bookmark. So contracting the bookmark is needed.

Question 2 - Bookmark Expiry Lengths
1 day, ? and ?.
1 day would be most useful. Signatures rarely last longer than that (either their lifetime or someone runs it. If it lives more than 1 day it is worthless site that doesn’t need to be bookmarked). For the two others I don’t have any opinions for.

Question 3 - Setting Bookmark Expiry
We have a corporation folder for bookmarking signatures. It would be nice if all bookmarks in it were automatically set to expire in 1 day.

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individual level, with a default value being set by folder then subfolder.
eg my “signatures” (sub) folder would have a defautl 2d expiration.

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Question 1: Converting a bookmark to a physical item would still be needed to be able to sell it on contract, for instance with escalations.

Question 2: 24 hours, 1 week, 1 month.
24 hours for anomalies, 1 week for timers and defense and 1 month for whatever.

Question 3: KISS. Keep it simple. Folders with ACL is already so much more flexible that any additional layering just makes it overly complicated.

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Any possibility of being able to give access to said bookmarks to Drifter Fleets? :yum:

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BTW it would be nice to have a per-user and per-corporation default / enforced location per typeid / groupid.

eg if I bookmark a WH signature in the corporation BM, it SHOULD eg go to the corporation/signatures/wh folders. if I BM a ded8 for myself, it should DEFAULT to egpersonal/signatures/ded . That may however require a lot of UI modifications.

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  1. Keep bookmars as “physical tradable” item.
    Or you could change access to bookmark with a fee to remove physical bookmark trading or make access to bookmark folder a tradable thing via contracts?
  2. 16hours - for WH, 24h for escalations and WH, 7 days for scannable combats.
  3. Individual model with option of creating temporary folders.
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BTW, forgot to mention it, but this concept would be one of the best QOL additions in a looooong time, whatever the details.

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Question 1: Escalation site BM contract sales. You get an escalation, but you want to sell the BM instead of running it yourself. I guess you can add access for a particular character to a newly created single item folder after payment is made, but that’s cumbersome, especially if the contract is not picked up right away.

Question 2: 1 day seems legit for WH and escalation expiration. They are useless generally afterwards. 7 days is useful for creating pings for mining anomalies.

Question 3. They should expire on a per creation level. Set at the time of creation of the BM. Similar to every contract having a configurable expiration time.

Question 3. There should b

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Q1: As a wormholer, none. Joint ops, evictions and batphones were always one of the times you’d need to drop or share bookmarks and this could now be handled via ACL, which would be incredibly useful.

Q2: As long as 2 days (to cover the longest wormholes) is one of them I wouldn’t care about the other two options, maybe 12 hours or 1 day, then 2 days and finally a week.

Q3: We have a ton of folders at the moment, three examples could be:

1: We have a ‘temp tacs’ folder for as the name would suggest, temporary tactical spots, this is used for bookmarking in-progress fights, MTUs/wrecks for warpins and that sort of thing. This folder could auto-expire under the shortest duration of 12 hours or a day without problems.

2: The wormhole chain folders such as ‘Static chain’ would then be on the 2 day expiry for obvious reasons.

3: OP Chain/tacticals for ops you know will last a set duration could then use the 7 day expiry. Though I don’t see this one being as useful, as sometimes things go wrong so it’ll be safer to leave it so that they need to be deleted manually.

CCP Lebowski #1

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What’s going to stop spies from copying and forwarding the entire alliance bookmark folder?

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