Don’t let in spies and it won’t happen. Ez.
Stupid question.
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I think bookmarks should be available as both a voucher (for DED/contracts) and as an ACL folder (fantastic idea btw).
It would also be cool if there could be a “current fleet members” ACL because otherwise it would take forever to click through on multiple characters. An alternative would be to have a link available that I could drag into fleet chat, and those wanting access could click and subscribe, like linking an overview.
Suggested access settings for a folder:
- Read only
- Read-add (no edits or deleting)
- Read-write
- Full admin
Subscribers should always be allowed to copy ACL bookmarks to their personal folders, similar to current mechanics.
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Obvious use case for Tokens is DED site sales. Others can and will cover that.
A default of “max life” on Wormhole Bookmarks would be sensible. Obviously you should not have bookmarks auto-delete when the WH collapses - that is free information. But if you are on grid and the WH message indicates it has not long left? Then the Bookmark should have a default life of the maximum that the WH could possibly have it its current indicated message.
I’m going to assume that “own corp” and “own alliance” will be automatic definitions in the ACL. Will there be accessability to the ACL management so we can use third party tools via ESI to add and remove individuals. For instance, I want to be able to add individual people to an ACL, but use a third party tool to automatically purge them from the ACL if they leave the Alliance. If there is only manual ability to add and remove individuals from the ACL then it is a security risk and much much less useful to all concerned.
Selling escalation locations.
4 hours, for wormholes that are EOL
24 hours, for wormholes that are beginning to decay
24 hours, same duration as escalations
Individual bookmark level. Currently when scanning wormholes I make a folder with the current date, and drop bookmarks for wormholes I scan that day into that folder. I then manually delete that folder a couple days later. If I could set my default bookmark expiry to 24hours, then I could skip the step of having to set up folders for each day of scanning.
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I generally think this would be helpful. I currently have an alt-corp that generally is useless other than to share bookmarks for things like trade hubs and insta-undocks
That’s a good idea but can we just simplify that ?
Bookmark a limited (in time) object expire automatically when the object expire (right clic save location with the current name) if you dont put an expiration limit yourself
and permanent / set a time limit when you CTRL + B
Idk if it’s possible but that can greatly help the wormbro’
EDIT: IF you rework the bookmark system can we expect them to be visible without delay ? could be really usefull if you farm some beacon with friends with corporation/alliance bookmark <3
sharing bookmark individualy is boring AF
BookMark Packs
People who create bookmark packs and sell them to people would easily be able to just give access to people on a one by one access as they pay them in isk instead of copy hundreds of bookmarks for a can and trading them.
Though if they are forced to expire they would be pointless for anything other then wormholes.
I consider this idea only via for wormholers if there is no infinite expiry option.
Well, the problem here is that it’s probably not desired for players to be able to tell the exact time the wormhole expires by just bookmarking it. Therefore, the feature has to be kinda dumb – even if you, the player, are looking at the Show Info text and can deduce that the wormhole is EOL, the system shouldn’t be making that inference for you and setting the max lifetime to 4 hours. It would need to set it to 48 hours, same as any other WH, to protect that information.
The entire point of the feature is to simplify house cleaning of bookmarks, not provide an intel advantage. Naturally, I would assume a player who was paying attention could set their own timer to be shorter if they were aware of a more accurate WH timer.
I’m confused, and it’s probably just that English is garbage for communication in less than novel format, but what I’m reading is that each character has to set up an ACL.
What I’m wanting is that as a CEO of a WH corp, who’s literal ability to travel depends on bookmarks, I can set up an ACL and add individuals, corps and whole alliances that they then ALL get access to that folder in their People and Places.
That would be a godsend.
The first would be a nightmare.
They dont need to show us this information the bookmark just expire when the time come, you don’t known if it’s in 10m or 4h you can’t deduce anything that way
(and i agree it’s a bad idea if we known when the wormhole collapse)
Question 1:
As others in this thread mentioned, selling DEDs in nullsec is a normal thing to do and for that to keep happening you’d have to keep it an option to make a phsyical, tradeable item from a bookmark. That also goes for copying/stealing tactical bookmarks on a spy-char.
Question 2:
2-4 hours - tacitcals while roaming, skirmishing
2 days - to cover all wormholes
7 days - to cover everything else, just to keep the folders from overflowing
Also of course keep the default to be non-expiry.
Question 3:
For our corp/alliance, we’d be mostly using a 2-day-expiry at folder level to keep the chain bookmarks clear. (All WH-bookmarks deleted 2d after creation, all of the wormholes are collapsed by that time already)
For people running relic/data/DED sites, I feel like an expiry on bookmark level would make sense, too…
Thank you for finally getting to this HUGE QOL improvement, I love you!
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why is it assumed that an auto-expiring bookmark for a WH needs to show when its expiring? they can do that without giving you any information at all if the expiry is server-side
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This. It’s not just bookmark packs as a business either. Scouts frequently make dozens or hundreds of bookmarks and it would be amazing to avoid voucher dragging and having to physically acquire them.
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Bookmarks can be queried via the API. It would be trivial to test for the lack of a bookmark to know that the WH had expired.
Hello CCP Lebowski,
First off, thank you very much for these big changes and for discussing it with the gamers that will be utilizing it! I appreciate that, and I’m sure many others do as well. I know this is slightly off topic but since you are looking to overhaul BM’s I think maybe this may be a good time to also ask for a matching feature between Citadel Bookmarks and Wormhole bookmarks!
Currently, when bookmarking a structure you are then able to right click in space, and when hovering over that Citadel you can just select a “Dock” dialogue option. 
Is it at all possible to have a matching feature where when BMing a Wormhole, you would be able to have a dialogue option to Jump said wormhole? Currently, all other forms of travel in the game, including: Stations, Citadels, Ansiblex Jump Gates, and Stargates allow you to jump them either via a button on the UI (Through the target selection window, or a dialogue option/keybind) when off grid from them. Wormholes are noticeably exempt from this.
This would be a huge QOL update to those of who not only jump a WH with a large amount of frequency but also when we’re jumping those wormholes with several alts at a time!
Thank you very much 
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You can do that now
Please make it so. You have no idea how much we’re dying to have this 
I often create hundreds of tactical bookmarks that I need to share with 10 + pilots. The current sharing mechanic is a thorn in my side for several reasons:
- I can only copy 10 bookmarks at a time. This makes it very painful especially with a hand condition that makes representative actions physically painful. Practically it makes it easy to copy a bookmark more than once or miss a bookmark all together. This leads me to my second issue;
- Currently there is no easy way to verify that all of my alts have the same set or subset of bookmarks. This is something that is both annoying and potentially deadly, especially when most of my bookarks are gate perches.
- The current process is time consuming, there is nothing fun about spending five hours in physical pain making copies of my most recent batch of bookmarks.
Being able to share folders with a collection of pilots will remove the need to make copies, and it will mean that each pilot has access to the exact same set of bookmarks. My only requests:
- Please give us the ability to share bookmarks with a large number of pilots. For years people have been asking for alliance bookmarks, the proposed changes are the way CCP can give us alliance wide bookmarks.
- If the bookmark system was to be left alone, please add extra ESI endpoints for bookmarks. Currently I can use an HttpGET to obtain my bookmarks and information on them, if I could create & delete bookmarks on ESI then I could make a tool that solved my above issues.
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Question 1 - Bookmark Vouchers
In the current system, bookmarks can be extracted from the People & Places window and converted into “physical” items that can be traded with other players. In what ways do you currently use this functionality that would not be covered by the system detailed above?
As mentioned by others already, selling escalations to other players is something that is currently an option that does not appear to be covered by the new system. I could imagine a scenario where players could be charged ISK to allow access to certain folders, individual bookmarks, or whatever. It is not exactly the same as using the ansiblex jump gates, but seems kind of close to that type of thing. Basically charging a player to use/do something with restrictions on who it can or cannot allow.
Question 2 - Bookmark Expiry Lengths
As mentioned above, when setting a bookmark to expire you will be able to choose from a pre-determined set of choices (e.g. 4 hours, 1 day, 7 days). If you were to choose three options for expiry length, which would you choose and why?
If you are going to set pre-determined times for expiration, be sure to have ‘never’ as an option as well. There are certain places in space that a person never wants to have removed. I see people talking about having a lot of automation to this stuff, and I agree with them on things like wormholes, combat sites, mining anomolies, etc, but with regard to player vs. player skirmishes/wars and such, having bookmarks that expire no matter what would suck for recon-type players that scout systems, set up perches, and bookmark enemy ‘safe spots’ while in a cloaky ship.
Question 3 - Setting Bookmark Expiry
As mentioned above, we are consider whether bookmarks should be set to expire at the Folder, Sub-folder or individual bookmark level. What use-cases do you foresee where you would utilize bookmark expiry, and of these options, which do you think would be the most appropriate level at which to set this expiry?
For me, most anoms could automatically wipe in a 24 hour period and not affect me much. If you go with corp folder and corp subfolder situations, again, it depends on what the bookmark is for. If our corp is bookmarking a medium asteroid anom, that will pretty much be gone in under 36 hours. If it is bookmarks for FCs for within the corp/alliance I am in, I don’t want those expiring automatically ever.
Having said all of the above, it may be a decent idea to come up with categories of types of bookmarks that players use and set up an ‘average time’ that those bookmarks expire. Mining/Combat/Hacking anoms (24 hours), safe zones/perches in a system (never expire), wormholes (36 hours), and have the bookmark be able to registered as an individual/corp/alliance situation separately but keep the times the same regardless of what individual/corp/alliance scenario it is.
I mostly use bookmarks while scouting for my fleet and/or alliance, and as such need a way to share bookmarks with FCs, other scouts, alliance leaders, etc. Being able to share these bookmarks quickly and seamlessly without having to go back to staging and trade the bookmarks over will be a huge improvement for me and everyone else doing similar work as me.
Bookmark vouchers sounds more or less like bookmarks function today, and would not offer anything new.
Bookmark Expiry lenghts, sounds really nice. With this you can make a wormhole or escalation bookmark expire with the wormhole itself, or lots of other uses, like temporary perches for an FC during a fight.
I’m not sure if limiting the timeframe to 3 lenghts is enough. Ideally I would like to see the option for 6 hours, 12 hours, 24 hours, 7 days, 14 days, 30 days, and never.
It makes most sense to have the bookmark expiry setting on the individual bookmarks themself, though having an option to delete every bookmark in a folder at predetermined intervals would also be great.
Unfortunately this will quite likely not be possible (I’ll take a closer look, but it will probably be without a positive result). For the case of a wormhole we are only storing the coordinates of the wormhole and not the wormhole instance itself (and I don’t think that it would be good / easy to change this).
Btw: This will also answer the question of others, if the expiry of a wormhole bookmark can be linked directly to the expiry of the wormhole (hint: no).
Note: Great discussions here! I won’t get too involved at the moment, but I am for sure reading everything.
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