PLEX is very expensive right now thread

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ima_Wreckyou

That is the biggest nonsense to avoid a simple question I have ever read.

Your question was stupid and flawed.
Thats on you. Not me.

I answered to correct you.
If you cant understand that, thats on you. Not me.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

Who gives a crap. Seriously, you are just asking these questions to dismiss their response. Stop it. Let it go and move on.

It was simply a request for data.
He responded.

Nowhere have I dismissed Sashas response.

Wtf are you ranting about.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

This is a false question.

OMG…

@Salvos_Rhoska

The value of isk doesnt change the value of a dollar.

OMG…

Of course not. What does change is the relative value of one currency to another.

@Salvos_Rhoska

PLEX price, for cash, has not changed.

Yes.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Isk value of PLEX does not change the dollar value of PLEX.

Okay…and?

@Salvos_Rhoska

You are backpedalling, hard, and into a corner.

The only corner here is the one you are busily painting yourself into.

@Salvos_Rhoska

For example if Sasha, in his report above, had bought those PLEX for cash today, rather than back then, he would have now been able to sell them for far more isk than back then.

Yes…and then what are we to draw from this? I am not joking. This is just a totally banal statement. When I bought and sold GTCs I got far less ISK than if I did it today. Thing is I wanted the ISK back then…I did not want to wait 8+ years for it. So, I saw a way to do it legitimately and which made both myself and another player better off. He wanted the game time more than I did (I already had my game time via a sub) and I wanted the ISK more than he did (ISK is useless if you can’t log in). And CCP got some extra money. It was literally a win-win-win. If we throw in the fact that it also undermines the RMT aspect of the game, then it is win^N since all players are better off under that scenario. Maybe there is a downside here somewhere, but I’m not seeing it. The “instant gratification” did not lead me to abandon the game, in fact given time constraints it meant I could log in and do fun stuff vs. grinding and grinding and grinding…which might have meant I would have left the game way back when.

[Drago_Shouna]

A few months ago when there was a sale on…can’t remember how many I bought though.

Sold them a few weeks later for well over a billion isk each…very happy

[Salvos_Rhoska]

Teckos trying to cover for a friends stupidity, but with no other rebuttal than “omg” and emojis.

All I did was ask Sasha when he bought PLEX, for how much, and how much he sold it for.

Sorry if that upsets you, but there really is no need to get bent out of shape over it.
I asked. He responded. I in no way dismissed his response, as you falsely claim.

If you are angry that Sasha responded to that simple query, take it up with him.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Your question was stupid and flawed.

Thats on you. Not me.

There was nothing wrong with the question. Was it too hard? Here is a hint, value = amount. Now try again, you can do it Salvos!

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ima_Wreckyou

@Salvos_Rhoska

Your question was stupid and flawed.

Thats on you. Not me.

There was nothing wrong with the question. Was it too hard? Here is a hint, value = amount. Now try again, you can do it Salvos!

Re-read my response.

You conflate dollars, with isk, with PLEX, as if they are all somehow interconnected equivalently.

Hint: They arent.

Your question was stupid, flawed and essentially comparing apples to oranges to tomatos, in all the wrong ways.

Isk has not depreciated/inflated.
The price of PLEX in dollars has not changed.
All that has happened, is that due to insufficient supply of PLEX vs demand, the value of PLEX in isk has risen.
The result of that, is when you buy less PLEX from CCP than ever before, you receive more isk ingame for it, than ever before.

Your claim that isk is worth less than ever before, is false.
Nor would it change the price of PLEX in cash, or the value of cash overall.

The value of isk is not measured against dollars, or PLEX.
The value of isk is determined against how much of it is circulating ingame at any given time.
The value of PLEX ingame, is determined by the demand/supply of PLEX, NOT by the value of isk.
The value of PLEX as bought from CCP remains constant.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Teckos trying to cover for a friends stupidity, but with no other rebuttal than “omg” and emojis.

No, it is because the question is actually not false. Maybe you should rethink?

@Salvos_Rhoska

Which is what I said.

The assumption that players buy more PLEX from CCP the higher its price, is not panning out. Furthermore, the higher the value of PLEX in isk, the less people have to buy units of PLEX for cash, inorder to meet their ingame isk needs.

Actually, you are not being very clear.

1. People are most likely buying more PLEX. If the in game supply was highly inelastic the rise in prices would likely be even more dramatic.

2. Some people might see the higher price and buy less–i.e. they need X billions so at the higher price they buy less. Others might be buying $X dollars worth and see the higher price as an added bonus. Also, there are those who were not going to buy PLEX from CCP when the in game price is P, but would when it is P + x. In short it is not clear that people are buying less. In fact, the laws of supply and demand strongly indicate the answer is, “No!”

@Salvos_Rhoska

There is no way for you to show that rate of PLEX purchase from CCP has increased commensurate with the rise in PLEXs isk value.

I don’t need too as that is not my claim. All I am telling you is that when there is an increase in demand, then the price goes up and as we “slide” along the supply curve there are more PLEX being bought. This implies more PLEX is being bought from CCP. To get the opposite, that the long run supply curve is downward sloping–i.e. people really are buying less from CCP it does not fit with the other facts we can obsrve–namely the rising price.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Both of our positions are unprovable, but the fact that supply has not matched demand, and that persons now need to buy less PLEX from CCP to gain the same isk value ingame, both strongly indicate that the rate of PLEX purchase from CCP has not increased commensurate with the rise of PLEX in isk value.

Sure, I can’t prove my position. However, my position fits with the facts that we can observe whereas yours is far more problematic…as such I am more inclined to believe my position than yours. Is it proof? No, but then again nothing can every be proven except in mathematics and formal logic.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

No, it is because the question is actually not false. Maybe you should rethink?

The question was flawed and stupid.
I corrected it in my response.

All you responded to cover Ima, whom is categorically wrong, was “omg” and emojis.

@Teckos_Pech

Actually, you are not being very clear.

I am being very clear. You are the one conflating and assuming red herring arguments which I never stated.

@Teckos_Pech

All I am telling you is that when there is an increase in demand, then the price goes up and as we “slide” along the supply curve there are more PLEX being bought. This implies more PLEX is being bought from CCP.

False. The sheer fact that at the current isk value of PLEX, one requires less purchases of PLEX from CCP for cash inorder to achieve the same isk revenue ingame, shows strongly that there is less incentive to buy PLEX in larger quantities than ever before.

@Teckos_Pech

However, my position fits with the facts that we can observe whereas yours is far more problematic…as such I am more inclined to believe my position than yours.

My view is exactly the same, but against yours.
I see no reason to assume that the rate of PLEX purchase from CCP has increased.
The continually rising price shows growing lack of supply, and the increasing isk value of PLEX means there is less incentive to buy MORE PLEX from CCP than before, as you can buy less and still get the same isk return.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Re-read my response.

You conflate dollars, with isk, with PLEX, as if they are all somehow interconnected equivalently.

Hint: They arent.

Actually they are, that is what exchange rates do. Exchange rates tell us the relative value of a currency to one or more other currencies.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Your question was stupid, flawed and essentially comparing apples to oranges to tomatos, in all the wrong ways.

So you just don’t believe in exchange rates?

@Salvos_Rhoska

Isk has not depreciated/inflated.

Uhhh wut?

@Salvos_Rhoska

The price of PLEX in dollars has not changed.

True.

@Salvos_Rhoska

All that has happened, is that due to insufficient supply of PLEX vs demand, the value of PLEX in isk has risen.

Supply is sufficient–i.e. there are no shortages. That is we do not see people offering 100 million for a single PLEX with no PLEX being offered. At best you can say that supply is not responding to offset an increase in demand. In fact, you are basically making Aaron’s argument. That an increase in demand, due to the additional services added onto PLEX, has driven up the price. This conjecture lead Aaron to suggest splitting PLEX into PLEX_Sub and PLEX_Services.

Now Aaron and I and others went back and forth…and in the end we just said, “We agree to disagree.” I acknowledge that there very well maybe some truth to Aaron’s claim, I am just not convinced it will be as big as he thinks/hopes it would be.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Your claim that isk is worth less than ever before, is false.

Well, with a positive inflation rate…yeah it is.

@Salvos_Rhoska

The value of isk is not measured against dollars, or PLEX.

That is exactly what exchange rates do though.

@Salvos_Rhoska

The value of isk is determined against how much of it is circulating ingame at any given time.

You do know that this statement and the one above can both be true at the same time. It is not crazy to say that Ima is a human and also a vertebrate right? All humans are vertebrates after all. I suppose there is a remote possibility that Ima is just a super crazy advanced amoeba, but I doubt it.

@Salvos_Rhoska

The value of PLEX ingame, is determined by the demand/supply of PLEX, NOT by the value of isk.

But that value is expressed in terms of ISK…sooooo…

@Salvos_Rhoska

The value of PLEX as bought from CCP remains constant.

Well, the dollar value has remained pretty constant. But each person’s value is entirely subjective. But what the heck lets all agree that the dollar value has remained pretty stable. Yeah?

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

False. The sheer fact that at the current isk value of PLEX, one requires less purchases of PLEX from CCP for cash inorder to achieve the same isk revenue ingame, shows strongly that there is less incentive to buy PLEX in larger quantities than ever before.

You are assuming people are buying PLEX to raise a fixed value of ISK. This assumption is at best dubious, because while some people may do that, others may buying a fixed $ amount of PLEX. Look, if I am going to spend say $20 and I’m fine with spending $20 then I might say, “Cool, my $20 gets me more ISK.” Also, if the price is say 3.3 million ISK, some players might buy PLEX to sell in game but would not have bought at say 3 million ISK. If the in game price goes up by 10% that is like a 10% discount on the price of PLEX CCP charges.

@Salvos_Rhoska

I see no reason to assume that the rate of PLEX purchase from CCP has increased.

Other than the law of supply you mean.

@Salvos_Rhoska

The continually rising price shows growing lack of supply, and the increasing isk value of PLEX means there is less incentive to buy MORE PLEX from CCP than before, as you can buy less and still get the same isk return.

Or it shows and increase in demand.

You can’t reason from a price change.

Here are a couple of simple questions:

Suppose the price of pig feed goes up. What happens to the price of pork in the grocery store?

Suppose the price of pork has gone up in the grocery store, can we say anything about why?

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

Actually they are

Actually, I didnt ask you, nor is the rest of that excusing of Imas flawed question.

@Teckos_Pech

At best you can say that supply is not responding to offset an increase in demand.

As I said. The rate of PLEX purchase from CCP has not responded/panned out to cover demand, regardless of the isk incentive.

@Teckos_Pech

Well, with a positive inflation rate…yeah it is.

Oh, so NOW you turn around and claim there is inflation? HAHA

@Teckos_Pech

You do know that this statement and the one above can both be true at the same time.

Isk inflation is determined by the amount of circulating isk. Period.

@Teckos_Pech

But that value is expressed in terms of ISK…sooooo…

No, its determined in value of dollars to buy a PLEX, which has not changed and does not care about the value of PLEX ingame. If anything, the fact PLEX has a higher isk value ingame, just means that less PLEX will be bought from CCP for cash, cos why buy 3 when 1 will give you the isk you need.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

You are assuming people are buying PLEX to raise a fixed value of ISK.

You are assuming they arent.
So far all reports of players that have bought PLEX in this thread, have led to an immediate sale inorder to fill their wallet with isk.

@Teckos_Pech

Other than the law of supply you mean.

That PLEX continues to rise, shows supply is not meeting demand.
Furthermore, the higher the value of PLEX in isk, the less PLEX a player must purchase from CCP to achieve their isk goals.

@Teckos_Pech

Or it shows and increase in demand.

It shows that supply is not meeting demand. Period.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Oh, so NOW you turn around and claim there is inflation? HAHA

I never said there wasn’t. I have said that there is not much inflation.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Isk inflation is determined by the amount of circulating isk. Period.

Which has generally been going up.

@Salvos_Rhoska

No, its determined in value of dollars to buy a PLEX, which has not changed and does not care about the value of PLEX ingame. If anything, the fact PLEX has a higher isk value ingame, just means that less PLEX will be bought from CCP for cash, cos why buy 3 when 1 will give you the isk you need.

So you really don’t believe in exchange rates…or is it that you believe that ISK has no value?

@Salvos_Rhoska

You are assuming they arent.

I am assuming that the law of supply is working, and that people do all three:

1. Buy PLEX to raise a fixed amount of ISK.
2. Buy a fixed $ amount of PLEX and see the increased ISK value as a bonus.
3. People not inclined to buy PLEX go ahead and buy PLEX from CCP when the price rises.

After all there are alot of PLEX in game and there is plenty of room for people to do all of these things…

@Salvos_Rhoska

So far all reports of players that have bought PLEX in this thread, have led to an immediate sale inorder to fill their wallet with isk.

Which does not tell us if they were doing it because of 1, 2 or 3 above.

@Salvos_Rhoska

That PLEX continues to rise, shows supply is not meeting demand.

Nope. I’ve given the reasons on this. You are simply wrong. Supply is meeting demand, just not in a sufficiently large enough amount to keep the price from rising. The laws of supply and demand are working as they should.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Furthermore, the higher the value of PLEX in isk, the less PLEX a player must purchase from CCP to achieve their isk goals.

Which would suggest a downward sloping long run supply curve and with increases in demand we should see a decreasing price. That your beliefs lead to a contradiction both internally and relative to the observed facts strongly suggests you are wrong.

@Salvos_Rhoska

It shows that supply is not meeting demand. Period.

No. Reasoning from a price change is problematic. Everyone else gets this ITT.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@Teckos_Pech

there is a remote possibility that Ima is just a super crazy advanced amoeba

I’m actually a cat. But this is the internet, so I’m save and no one will believe me.

@Salvos_Rhoska

You conflate dollars, with isk, with PLEX, as if they are all somehow interconnected equivalently.

$ is a currency. ISK is a currency. PLEX is just a way to make a one-way exchange between the two.

So because we have this relationship we can assign an ISK value to $ (or PLEX as a proxy, because as you say the $ value of PLEX is fixed) and vice versa we can assign a $ value to ISK. A simple exchange rate between two currencies.

Now if ISK loses value compared to $, that just means if before 10mil was the same as 1$, now maybe 10mil is only worth 0.5$. Which means for 1$ you get now 20mil ISK, because ISK lost value compared to $. Pretty simple.

I’m sure you will now invent a lot of excuses and stuff which has nothing to do with all of this to hide the fact that you still don’t get it.

You are only confusing yourself Salvos.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

I have said that there is not much inflation.

Good. So we agree that there is not much isk inflation.

@Teckos_Pech

Which has generally been going up.

But not by much, as testified by you above,

@Teckos_Pech

So you really don’t believe in exchange rates…

The value of isk, of PLEX and of the dollar, are all separate.
Isk doesnt determine the value of PLEX, nor does PLEX determine the value of isk.
Both are determined by the amount of them circulating, as separate values.

@Teckos_Pech

I am assuming that the law of supply is working

Its working as I stated in my previous post.

@Teckos_Pech

Which does not tell us if they were doing it because of 1, 2 or 3 above.

It shows that of evidence we have at hand, those players did sell them immediately for isk in their wallet.

@Teckos_Pech

Supply is meeting demand, just not in a sufficiently large enough amount to keep the price from rising.

That is what supply not meeting demand means.
Supply not meeting demand always results in a price increase.

@Teckos_Pech

Which would suggest a downward sloping long run supply curve and with increases in demand we should see a decreasing price.

No, it would look exactly as the market does now. That you claim an increase in demand should show a decreasing price, is flat out irrational and false, because you persistently refuse to ackowledge the lack of supply to meet it.

@Teckos_Pech

No. Reasoning from a price change is problematic.

Its basic economics. When supply cannot meet demand, price rises.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ima_Wreckyou

You are only confusing yourself Salvos.

Ive determined you are either an idiot, or a troll.
Im just laughing at your posts at this point.

Maybe you are good at ganking, but this PLEX discussion is way above your head.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Maybe you are good at ganking, but this PLEX discussion is way above your head.

Yeah, I think there is a point when someone is just removed so much from reality there is no way even simple reasoning will reach him.

So lets end this. No one agrees with you anyway. Lol

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ima_Wreckyou

No one agrees with you anyway

You’d be surprised.
I dont expect you to understand that.

@Ima_Wreckyou

I think there is a point when someone is just removed so much from reality there is no way even simple reasoning will reach him.

Yeah, thats you in a nutshell.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

The value of isk, of PLEX and of the dollar, are all separate.

Okay, they are all separate items, sure. But via PLEX we have essentially an exchange rate.

@Salvos_Rhoska

It shows that of evidence we have at hand, those players did sell them immediately for isk in their wallet.

But 1, 2, and 3 are consistent with what has been reported. All three “put ISK in the sellers wallet” As such the “data” you have does not tell you anything in regards to whether it was 1, 2 or 3.

@Salvos_Rhoska

That is what supply not meeting demand means.

No, supply not meeting demand means there is a shortage–i.e. people willing to pay a very high price, yet the good in question is simply not available. Just because the price is higher does not mean there is not sufficient supply to meet the demand at the new price.

@Salvos_Rhoska

No, it would look exactly as the market does now.

Nope.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Its basic economics. When supply cannot meet demand, price rises.

Nope. When supply does not meet demand you have a shortage. When there is a change in the under lying processes so that either supply or demand shifts and the price changes supply is still meeting demand.

Supply meeting demand does not imply the price never changes.