PLEX is very expensive right now thread

[Salvos_Rhoska]

Its very simple, Ima.

Your first two categories are more or less accurate.
(With the exception that it is not rational to buy PLEX from CCP inorder to sub, rather than directly buying a sub for cheaper, as you overlooked in PLEX Sinks category).

Even when generating a free PLEX via Buddy, its still cheaper in cash to buy a sub to activate it, rather than buying a PLEX for cash to activate it.

You have to understand, and remember, we are talking about buying PLEX from CCP, not from other players ingame, after someone else buys them.

You lost sight of that in your analysis.

1, 3 and 4 of your categories are identical.
All 3 of those buy PLEX from CCP inorder to resell for isk value ingame, either now or later.

---

There are only 2 categories of PLEX purchasers from CCP:

1. PLEX Sourcers: Whom buy PLEX from CCP for ingame re-sale for isk.
2. PLEX Sinkers: Whom buy PLEX from CCP to buy skins/apparel/re-sculpt/MCT (last is an anomaly) and whom sink them to that end.

Thats what all this boils down to.

Once you internalize the above, we can start talking about at what rates these are occurring, why, and what the impact is on EVEs ingame PLEX market.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

I think you don’t even categorically understand what I was talking about

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ima_Wreckyou

I think you don’t even categorically understand what I was talking about

No, its you that doesnt understand what you said, and why it was wrong.
I understood what you said, and corrected it where it was wrong.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

Not really

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ima_Wreckyou

Not really

Ok.
Then prove this wrong:

@Salvos_Rhoska

There are only 2 categories of PLEX purchasers from CCP:

1. PLEX Sourcers: Whom buy PLEX from CCP for ingame re-sale for isk.
2. PLEX Sinkers: Whom buy PLEX from CCP to buy skins/apparel/re-sculpt/MCT (last is an anomaly) and whom sink them to that end.

Thats what all this boils down to.

Remember, we are talking about PLEX purchase from CCP, not 2nd hand purchase of PLEX ingame for isk, which are all introduced by the above (except for Buddy PLEX).

[Ima_Wreckyou]

The distinctions matter because I’m talking about actors in the market and not just about who is purchasing PLEX from CCP. You either completely misunderstand what I wrote or are just trolling.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ima_Wreckyou

The distinctions matter because I’m talking about actors in the market and not just about who is purchasing PLEX from CCP.

Actors that deal with 2nd hand PLEX only, are distinct from those that buy PLEX from CCP.

Players dealing in 2nd hand PLEX, dont determine the rate of introduction of new PLEX to the market.

PLEX is introduced into EVE only by purchase from CCP, or via Buddy program.

In your post, which I addressed, you spoke specifically about these actors buying PLEX from CCP, and why (which where false 2.5/4)

Are you now backpedalling out of your earlier analysis of why 4 categories buy PLEX from CCP? Did you forget that you where talking specifically about why those 4 (false) categories BUY PLEX FROM CCP?

Are you stupid, or just insipid?
You fked up. Own it.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

There was only one actor buying PLEX from CCP, the PLEX Source, the rest buys from the market. Go read what I wrote again.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

People buying PLEX from the market earns CCP nothing.
Your 4 categories specifically talked about buying PLEX from CCP.
Not from the ingame market.

You need to go back and revise them.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

Yeah sure explain to me what I wrote…

I wrote about who is selling and who is purchasing ON THE MARKET,

@Ima_Wreckyou

The PLEX Source, People who purchase PLEX from CCP and want to trade it for money.

The PLEX Sink, People who purchase PLEX from the market to get play time or stuff from the shop.

The Trader, Trades PLEX on the market for profit from the trade margin.

The Investor, Stockpiles PLEX to make a long term investment to profit from price increase or to protect his capital from inflation.

• PELX Sorce buys from CCP sells on the market.
• PLEX Sink, trader, investor buy from the market.

The post was talking about the PLEX market and now about what people are buying from CCP!

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Ima_Wreckyou

Yeah sure explain to me what I wrote…

I wrote about who is selling and who is purchasing ON THE MARKET,

No, you wrote about:
: PLEX Sources that buy PLEX from CCP to sell for isk.
: PLEX Sinks, that buy PLEX from CCP to sink them.
: PLEX Traders, that buy PLEX from CCP to sell for profit.
: PLEX Investors, that buy PLEX from CCP to store value.

I already ran through why the last two are the same as the first.
I already explained how the second does not rationally apply to PLEX purchase from CCP instead of a sub., as you falsely claimed otherwise.

Its all there.

Own your ■■■■, bro.
You are backpedalling, hard, and into a corner of your own making.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

Man you can’t even read. This is absolutely ridiculous. There is no point in continuing this conversation. I should not have responded to your drivel in the first place, my fault. You have some serious issues Salvos

[Salvos_Rhoska]

Nice edits to your previous posts, to try and cover your ass.

This is about why people buy PLEX from CCP, not how other people use them after they are paid for, until they are sunk.

That is the context and relevance, not your contrived and irrelevant point that “Traders” or “Investors” buy them with isk ingame, when someone else PAID for them in RL cash.

Unbelievable how dishonest you are.

Either that, or you are still too stupid to understand the differences between why people pay cash for PLEX from CCP, and how those are traded ingame 2nd hand.

[Marek_Kanenald]

So after about 100 posts you are still out to proof “not all plex is bought from CCP?”

Its getting rather stale man.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Ima_Wreckyou

Buy from a sell order (PLEX Sink)

The only one motivated to purchase from a sell order is actually an inpatient PLEX Sink. The Trader makes his profit from the margin between buy and sell orders, so he always creates them. The Investor has no interest in buying from a sell order since he does not need the PLEX immediately and will lose potentially billions of ISK if he would use a sell order instead of creating one.

Not disagreeing, just would add the investor here. In some cases the Investor may want to transfer his ISK to PLEX as a hedge against possible future inflation. For example, a player is going to take a break due to IRL factors for an indeterminate period of time. In this case the player may not have time to wait for buy orders to be filled, so he just buys straight from sell orders.

Yes, he could lose out if he comes back and PLEX prices are still pretty much the same, but well…that is how things work you have various trade offs and sometimes you have to chose the best of an undesirable set of choices.

@Ima_Wreckyou

Sell to a buy order (PLEX Source)

Similar to the buy order, the only one with a motivation to fill a buy order is an inpatient PLEX Source. The trader has no interest because he always just creates orders. The investor has no interest since he has no immediate need for the ISK and would lose potentially billions of ISK if he would sell to a buy order instead of creating one.

Similar to the above, not disagreeing, just noting that a player coming back form a hiatus might see that the buy orders offer him a nice profit and he just doesn’t wan to 0.01 ISK the market, so dump his stock and move on to other things he finds interesting.

@Ima_Wreckyou

Everey PLEX is traded at the most two times before he is consumed. There is no basis for the assumption that PLEX is traded multiple times on the market.

If we include the Investor as being a PLEX Sink/Source it gets a bit more complicated, but the question of the “velocity of PLEX” is and empirical one. Think of “velocity” as how many times a unit changes hand. This concept is usually applied to money, but we can apply it to PLEX. There is no reason to conclude it is fixed. Also there is no reason to assume it is “high” or “low”. This would be something that CCP can actually see, and like with the Fed and other central banks it might be nice if CCP Quant added such a measure to the monthly economic report.

@Salvos_Rhoska

2 is innaccurate, in that it is cheaper to buy a sub, than PLEX, if gametime is the goal.

If this is the case then who cares if the PLEX price is 3.4 million ISK or 3.4 trillion ISK. Are you deliberately trying to contradict yourself?

@Salvos_Rhoska

3 is identical to 1, and superfluous. Eventually those PLEXes are traded for isk, as in 1.

No, this player never buys PLEX from CCP (except on rare ocassions perhasp such as a good PLEX sale from CCP). These players are short term speculators.

@Salvos_Rhoska

4 is identical to 1 also, and superfluous. Eventually those PLEXes are traded for isk, as in 1.

Again no. These are speculators and other players who want to hold PLEX long term. Again, they are not buying from CCP.

@Salvos_Rhoska

It can be generally assumed

Probably not…

@Salvos_Rhoska

…that a player will prefer a sub purchase with their cash, first, if they dont have an existing sub, before buying PLEX ontop of that.

Yup, I was right. There could also be a class of players who are so stupid ISK rich they just PLEX their accounts (with ISK) so they can buy more beer while playing…this was your own freaking hypothesis.

So from here on out your conclusions are dubious at best.

@Salvos_Rhoska

A sub is cheaper than PLEXing a sub, in cash. In your classifications, a Trader will in all cases prefer to get a sub, first, before considering buying PLEX.

See…this right here is dubious. Sure that is possible maybe even the norm, but it need not be true of the entire group. You went after @Ima_Wreckyou’s classifications because they were not completely disjoint sets, but here you are now assuming a completely disjoint set. You flip flop on this kind of crap just to try and score cheap points and stick to your position.

@Salvos_Rhoska

I see Skins/apparel as having very low motility, and almost always being actually sold at a loss in terms of comparing if the buyer had simply sold the PLEX instead.

Oh for God’s sake. Value and price are not the same thing, FFS. If I value a skin at say 5,000 PLEX and bought it for 250…I’d be an idiot to sell the PLEX for ISK if that skin does cannot be found on the in game market.

Value is subjective. I could really, really value something and thus be willing to pay a price far higher than you’d be willing to pay. That you and I pay the same “low” price means I get a ■■■■ ton of consumer surplus.

@Salvos_Rhoska

There are exceptions, but its very niche, as shown by how few of these skins/apparel end up on the isk market, and how rarely they sell for the sellers order.

It could also show that given the number of ships that have skins most are bought via PLEX. See, this is resting on an unstated assumption and a lack of appreciation/understanding of what it means when a market is thin.

Seriously, have you ever read the broken window parable by Bastiat. He talks about what is seen and unseen in the market. You suffer from not even being aware there is aspects of this that are unseen. We do NOT see the Skins/PLEX market. That is it is not something neither you nor I have data on. All we can see is the partial result: how many skins are in game. I was watching one guy switch out probably a half dozen skins on his titan one evening. My guess is he is stupid ISK rich, bought a crap ton of PLEX, bought a crap ton of skins.

@Salvos_Rhoska

As we have all agreed, the higher the value of PLEX in isk ingame, the less of them a player has to buy to meet their isk goals. That is a fact.

No. It is a conclusion based on certain assumptions. At best we can say that this is most likely partially true–i.e. it is most likely true for some players who buy PLEX from CCP for sale for ISK.

@Salvos_Rhoska

My view is that less PLEX is being bought from CCP, and this is the core cause of ever increasing PLEX price ingame.

Which does not fit very well with the actual fact that the PLEX on the market has been pretty constant for the last year. If your argument is that this is due to old stock…that old stock must be absolutely enormous.

@Salvos_Rhoska

As to the rate of PLEX being sunk in EVE, I do think that has increased, primarily by people dumping them on 2nd hand Extractors, MCT (as irrationally cheaper than a cash MCT) and people using them 2nd hand to buy skins/apparel.

This is actually called an hypothesis and it should be checked against data. In fact, that is the only way it can be checked. BTW, if the rate of PLEX being sunk is going down and the rate at which people are buying PLEX from CCP is also going down…that would probably mean the price would not go up, all else held constant.

@Salvos_Rhoska

Imo, at the very least, PLEX purchase from CCP has not increased in proportion to the rise of demand by the centralization/diversification of PLEX services, or price in isk of it ingame.

Of course not. The unstated implication here is that PLEX prefectly elastic on the supply side. That is highly unlikely.

@Salvos_Rhoska

As to PLEX introduced via the Buddy program.

It is likely trivial, your obsession with it not withstanding.

@Salvos_Rhoska

You misunderstood.

It is not rational to sub with a cash PLEX purchase, rather than a cash sub.

OMG…

Suppose I am stupid ISK rich, but due to [insert reasons] I am IRL cash poor, or I’d rather spend my IRL cash on something else now that I am stupid ISK rich…subbing via PLEX may be completely rational.

See this is where you go off the rails. You should have a friend take a sharpie and right on your forehead the following:

“Value is subjective and relative to the individual.”

Make sure it is backwards so you can see it in the mirror and maybe seeing it until it wears off will help you grasp this point. Sheesh…

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Marek_Kanenald

So after about 100 posts you are still out to proof “not all plex is bought from CCP?”

Event PLEX is not paid for.
Buddy PLEX is not paid for.

The only PLEX that is paid for, is that which a person pays CCP for.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Event PLEX is not paid for.

Buddy PLEX is not paid for.

So?

How many event PLEX were there? How many Buddy PLEX were there? Your initial claim, IIRC, was that these things meant people bought less PLEX from CCP to such a degree that the price went up. But that is not necessarily the case or if it is, then it is trivial.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Teckos_Pech

@Salvos_Rhoska

Event PLEX is not paid for.

Buddy PLEX is not paid for.

So?

How many event PLEX were there? How many Buddy PLEX were there? Your initial claim, IIRC, was that these things meant people bought less PLEX from CCP to such a degree that the price went up. But that is not necessarily the case or if it is, then it is trivial.

Now you are being deliberately obstinate, and false to the point of refuting your own argument.
That event PLEX and Buddy PLEX is not being paid for, means the demand for PLEX as bought from CCP is reduced, thus reducing CCPs PLEX sales. These can instead be bought ingame with isk, without CCP having earned a cent.

You also did not refute that these have not been paid for.

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

Thank you, Teckos, for introducing me to M. Bastiat and his little tale, and for occasioning an explosion of laughter as I read 'It is likely trivial, your obsession with it not withstanding."! in reference to the ‘Buddy Program’.

I cannot imagine gleaning such gems from a trawl through /r/eve…

[Takari]

Sure any one person doesn’t have to buy as many PLEX from CCP, but the higher the ISK value is, the more people that will buy PLEX.