Wait, does this mean that you are against the current wardec system? I probably missed that in past, asking just to know where you stand at.
Okay, then more discussion is moot. We wonāt find a common ground anyway. Like the big blue donut, the POCO Cartel, the TTT and the HighSec war dec system are symptomps of large-scale stagnation. Like a fighting game (and everyone keeps repeating that EVE is all about PvP and destruction) where the fighters just agree not to fight any more but to extort everyone else. And beating up whoever wants to do something about it. At this point some rules must be changed by the game master, else the game gets boring for the majority of the players. Or a more RL-related comparison: free market is fine, cooperation is fine, but Cartels and Monopolies have to be broken by a superior power (aka the State, or in EVEs terms: CCP) to keep the market running / the game running. What we currently experience is stagnation caused by too much power in too few hands. And no change in sight. It was a good thing the TTT got removed (and even this happened after CCP announced changes to the structure rules). I sincerely hope CCP finally realizes how bad this stagnation is for the game and takes measures to break up such milking agreements.
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What? Itās a ridiculously bad system that only leads to blobs that can make sure nobody can raze their HQ while they can easily raze anyone elses HQ while being protected by CONCORD from any outside interference.
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Thatās what people said would happen when CCP introduced it for the first time. Players were right, CCP didnāt listen, normal story.
The good thing with pocos is that you can evade the extortion. You have plenty of places where you can use pocos from different groups that do not belong (directly or officially) to the big blobs. Under a scheme like actively fueled pocos, these would all vanish, new pocos would not replace them or the replacements would belong to big blobs.
This is only and absolutely only a āproblemā around hubs. Literally 3 jumps from the hubs (maybe 4 jumps from Jita because itās so influential), no one cares about the pocos. You want to make a system worse for the entire cluster because a handful of systems are āproblematicā. That is exactly the kind of policy type that makes monopolies even stronger because they have the logistical means in place to effectuate these changes.
Sweetheart, you are wrong. TTT was not removed. Itās still there, just like itās been before. It only lost the Keepstar, but all other important structures, the Sotiyos in Perimeter in particular, are still there and dominate the market. 
CFC keeps declareing war against TTT but for weeks now nothing has happened at all in Perimeter. Structure industry is totally alive and kicking there, and the Sotiyos are responsible for the majority of it.
And all the āreplacement structuresā that wanted to combat TTTās monopoly are gone again because only TTT, even without Goons, actually supports their infrastructure.
The only good thing this war brought about is that people went back to Jita again. This was a much needed shift to get the rampant broker feeās exploitation by player groups in check and to drain more ISK out of the system again.
I sincerely hope that CCP eventually realizes how bad their implementation of Upwell structures was and is for the game and gets rid of them entirely. We need to go back to conquerable outposts in Null sec, POS in W-Space and no player owned big infrastructure in high sec. When this was the case, EVE was much more alive, far more active and far less stagnant.
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That was the point I am trying to make. First they lured players to the station they did agree not to challenge, by undercutting NPC market fees and then redirected this money into the own pockets. Upwell Structures should never allow going below NPC fees in empire space, just offering the market as a service.
Oh well, at least with this we can agree. I doubt they will be removed ever again after all the effort CCP has put into them. But a significant change is desperately needed, yes.
Thanks for the conversation.
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hold on, can you keep a POCO during 5 years with 0 maintenance?
Once they are anchored, they are anchored. No maintenance required. That said, keeping one for 5 years without someone blowing it up would be quite a trick. I set up some POCOs when they first came out. Every time I took a break from the game Iād lose one or two. Eventually they were all gone.
If no one cares for it, you can keep it. I have an abandoned pos stick in high sec to be able to assist in wars that has been sitting at its moon for 7 years.
then POCOS need some kind of refueling like a cit. what should be discussed is how often should the refueling be done before going abandoned.
Give it a starbase charter hold that can hold charters for 6 months.
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1 Month 
Really no big deal to send a frigate there every 30 days. Even if you donāt live there. If you live there, itās no deal at all.
Starbase Charters is even a good idea, because they are an ISK sink.
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To my mind, any kind of maintenance cost would be too much. Most POCOs even in highsec donāt make much money.
Some of mine were 1 jump out of Rens, which was still an active hub in those days, and they still took about a year to pay off the 100 mil or so that I spent on them. And thatās if you donāt count the costs to defend them. Iām sure the ones close to Jita that everyone fights over do a little better, but itās still probably not much.
I think you have to have lots of them to be worth it at all, or you have to do PI yourself (ew 
).
As said before: That is not how to calculate their balance. POCOs pay off if you use the planets - by not having to pay taxes, and if you open them to the public, thats some free additional ISK. If you do not do PI there with multiple chars at least or even a small corp of players, simply do not place a POCO. They are not meant to pay off passively for someone just placing them in the midst of nowhere. @Dyver_Phycad is probably right, thats why the O&F guys place them around the trade hubs and not in some remote corners of the map.
Advice: Sell the POCO to some active local group who really want to do a lot of PI there.
As someone who used to own a couple POCOs, this is wrong. Took atleast like half a year for me to make the money back.
When another corp wardecced me for it, I emailed the CEO of the other corp to offer to sell the poco to him for half the price. He never responded, and his corpmates came to take it down, so i decided to take them down. Was a 1v3 and killed them all. Then i private convoed them and told them i made an offer to their CEO about the pocos. I think they ended up buying it. Fun times.
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Anyone know what the Poco setups are like in null, do some allianceās have large operations
Unless Black Flag are omega and friends, then obviously this is not about making isk from high sec Poco. Also I think you will find O&F owning more than the Poco around huds, after Bee last attack on them I think they broke their Poco into some smaller groups , meaning more war Decās are needed to disrupt them, very similar names though.
Same with high sec mining ,seen many times null sec disruption of mining groups in high , with either ganking or war Decās, and some try and take control of this ore themselves. Same can be said with ice too.
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