The problem is you want somethng that takes very little time to set up and costs almost nothing but give you more protection then it should. If you want to live nomadically fine, but dont expect to have protection to the same degree that people get with actual structures.
Yurt is a funny name isnt it
I wonder what it means
they can also be cloaked, which i have used to escape from gate camps in empire.
Never have I mentioned being safe I just want WHAT was in eve back it don’t need to be safe at all i just want to be able to put up a pos reprocess ore or moon mine deep into large alliances territory LIKE I was able to do.
Did we loose POS’s sure,was it fun hell yeah, did we make isk F yeah, SO my beef is CCP updated Structures But left a huge gap that is in need of filling.
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A POS was great to use as a temporary base for doing extended exploration way out in ‘No Man’s Land’. Could load it in a BR with enough fuel for a few days, quickly set it up, then go switch into a T3 Cruiser and go to town for a few days, then switch back into the BR, go sell the goods, then break camp and set the POS up in another area.
What I want is for structures that can defend themselves. Thats how it should be. NPC stations all have guns on them, why can’t stations? You see 4 to 6 guns on NPC stations that are apparently weak but I mean, they are NPC guns so they aren’t really used for anything and likely haven’t been updated since they first became a thing but yea.
A POS would take an actual fleet of people to destroy, not just two losers who have nothing better to do.
I think it would be nice if POS guns, could be placed within station boundaries now. Anywhere within their boundaries. Next to, at the edge of the range, any place within the station’s docking field. The POS guns should remain unchanged, in their working methods. Cost CPU and Power-grid from the station its self. Allowing us to place 2 to 4 guns on small things like a refinery, to 20 guns on the big super high value stations, who knows.
Lets not forget, we need modules for shield, resistance modules, the ability to try and repair our stations. Maybe ship repair beams should work at 1/10th the speed on a station than they would on a player ship, and have a repair cap just like player damage cap. You’d need a giant fleet of people repairing a station to be able to save it. I don’t know about the mechanic we can use to balance this out, but I participated once in repairing someone’s starbase while they had a fleet out in the next system holding the enemy off. Now this is true PVP, holding the enemy back while your repair teams work. Its a race against time, defeat the enemy or hope that your repair team finished before the enemy gets there.
Resistances were a thing on starbases, why aren’t they on stations? Why are all the values for stations the exact same too? Hull, Armor, Shield, exact same in each. Wouldn’t particular stations specialize more in armor like refineries, for example? Shouldn’t we have a variety in stations rather than just “This is tier 1 refinery, this is tier 2 which costs 10x more”? Minmatar Refineries, Amarr Refineries, Caldari Refineries, Gallente Refineries, ORE Refineries. Each with different armor, hull, shield values, where one specializes in shields, the other hull, another armor, etc. Different power-grid and CPU levels each type, slightly different specializations perhaps. The same variety you get with Starbases.
Stations should definitely defend themselves though. Think of it as if you hire a crew of 1,000 to 10,000 people, or more, from local planets and over-crowded stations. Just generic personnel that live on your station and do the normal tasks on board. Part of their job is to activate the automated defenses and do the best they can. You come back on, your station is under attack, so you walk in and take control of the guns yourself, the same mechanic as the starbase with the max amount you can control at once, not letting you use the station modules (gunner cockpit or station cockpit, you can only enter one of them).
If you want, limit station fuel storage to a max of some amount. Set up stations with fuel level thresholds. Emergency fuel reserve which lasts 1 week, a fuel tank that can last 2-4 weeks. When the fuel tank runs out, modules shut down, station defenses keep working. Emergency fuel runs out, guns shut down. Low power mode shuts down a week later, station enters permanent vulnerability till someone gets on to fix it. Hell, go a step further, stations with no power at all decay little by little, losing hit points at a constant rate. No power means no shields. Armor decays 2.5% per day, hull decays 1% per day (simultaneously). That means if someone stays away from the game for basically 4 months, their stations die. Adjust the values if you want longer or less time, I don’t think it should be under 3 months however.
I’m willing to think of ideas, work the problem. But it seems like no one wants the problem worked, PVPers love easy to kill stations, CCP loves assets being lost. I feel like, no one wants this problem worked on, just easy to kill weak stations for everyone forcing out all small time players, requiring corps of 100+ when CCP knows damn well that half the game is nothing but alt accounts and botters while the other half is trolls who find exploits and find excellent ways to harass people or cause grief so there will never be any kind of fair play. Which is why, stations need to defend themselves.
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If you can’t protect it, you don’t deserve it.
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We do not need the old POS mechanic and when there are abandoned structures it shouldnt take 1000 players to kill it. We also do not need allowing the structures to be repaired by players. In WH space this would cause a defense fleet to be a ton of Fax’s to quickly rep the structure while a sub cap fleet tries to bash.
So lets see, the want list is;
Easily moved
Hard as ■■■■
Can defend itself when afk or not logged in
Has at least storage space worth a crap
Anything I missed?
Red racing stripe decals.
Rear spoiler.
Bitchin’ spinning rims.
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You missed the low low price, an offer you cant refuse.
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Structure skins ohhh ccp didn’t think about that one did you 
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Got to say from your comments I get the impression you have never lived in a wormhole or had to use a POS for everything you do everyday. It also seems like you’ve never actually attacked and destroyed any size of POS or had to defend one before.
You seem to know about “risk versus reward” and somehow have the opinion we didn’t want to “risk” anything anymore. You are a long way from the truth. We looked at that reward versus risk and laughed at how unbalanced it had become.
The new structures are just GIANT LOOT PINATAS that don’t shoot back!
At least a POS attempted to prevent and slowed the process of pillage and burn.
It never stopped a determined well organised attack.
You always had to defend your POS/show up to patch it up from OUTSIDE the shield.
The attacker risks nothing attacking the new structures in a wormhole. The structure won’t shoot back unless someone is inside the structure to man the guns.
Doh! The structure clearly indicates if anyone is inside based on the idea you could see into the POS shield to see players in ships sitting there.
As long as that magic [0] appears on the structure the attacker KNOWS it can’t possibly hurt them! Therefore the initial attack is basically guaranteed to reinforce the structure with stuff all risk. The attacker will select a time just prior to a time that they expect the defenders to be away for the next couple of days.
This didn’t work with an online POS because as a defender you could vary the reinforcement timer by adding or removing strontium whilst the tower was under attack. You the defender got to pick the time for YOUR defence of YOUR structure conatining YOUR assets. It wasn’t preset by some setting you made months ago when the structure was deployed.
I remember one night attackers hit our POS just before a long weekend. We had people going away for the next three days. It took the attackers about 4-5 hours to put it into reinforced. We simply changed the stront level just before hit reinforced so it left reinforcement 3 hours later. We all dragged ourselves out of bed at some stupid hour of the morning to defend and repair. Despite knowing when it came out of reinforcement the attackers didn’t show up. All we got to do was buff the shield back up for numerous hours of mind numbing boredom whilst staying alert for them to return.
The attackers risk one ship they are in and anything they setup to assist (like a small POS). They can leave at any time and return at any time in the future. The defender risks everything they have and I assure you it isn’t some silly little figure like 1 billion.
For starters you’re looking at a Fortizar at a minimum. An Astrahaus is pathetically small and will get swallowed by Bob.
So lets start with a figure of 10 billion not the 1 billion red hotel you placed on The Strand in Monopoly. Other structures Azbel etc are for production not defence, You’ll need some of them to produce ammo and fuel blocks so they’re an extra investment after your Fortizar.
The part you’ve overlooked is the structure is simply a “container” into which EVERYTHING you need to live in the wormhole gets put.
Now think about a Wormhole…There are no NPC stations…every ship, module, all the loot, every round of ammunition, every hauler, freigher, orca, mining barge is in that cardboard box.
10 billion isk is the value of the “cardboard box” you shoved the stuff into.
When replying above you only put a value on the cardboard box and not what is inside the box.
My personal assets in the wormhole were between 5 and 10 billion isk.
So yes “worth so much isk” as in for the corporation and players as a whole. 1 billion isn’t even close to what a corp and the players in that corp have invested in that wormhole.
There are customs offices as well.
Everything you need to defend a whole system gets put in that cardboard box. So if the cardboard box goes boom you lose all the investment you have made in the location because you can no longer defend it.
To answer some other misconceptions you seem to have:
An OFFLINE POS does not shoot back. Just like those new stations 
Hence my use of the Christmas incident as an example.
A large tower with good defences takes organisation and remote repair ships to attack with any chance of success but it was possible and we launched attacks like this ourselves.
A small gang of T1 cruisers won’t take down a medium online POS that has a decent setup but 5
organised players with T1 battleships will reinforce it in 3-4 hours.
A small tower is always toast without active defence (this is your Astrahaus). Simply too little grid and CPU to mount enough weapons to be of any value. At least a small Caldari tower with pure ECM delayed/annoyed people until they just gave up, (but there are ways around this if your smart so even this will die fast if you know how).
A large tower (like you have in a wormhole because anything else is pointless) could hold out for quite a while and give you time to get your mates online. About the time you all logged in, the attackers left the wormhole/cloaked up/ran to their POS shield. We didn’t dead stick the vacant moons so corps could come in and setup a POS. Invasions were fine with us, It gave us something to do.
I probably should have specified that the offline POS was SMALL tower in an alt corp used for R&D. The fact they needed a war dec indicated it was in high sec space. I offlined and removed all structures (labs etc) from it for the christmas holidays. It was a “bare stick” with no defences and no fuel. So no it didn’t shoot back. The loss of it wasn’t even a minor annoyance in isk terms but it was a PIA to find a new moon, organise the correct standings, anchor the new tower and move all the structures to the new location.
We had about 10 people in the wormhole corp. This might seem small but trust is a major issue with a POS because unlike a station you don’t get your own “personal” space (personal hangers were rather small and not very useful). Your ships were all in the ship maintenance array and anyone could take any ship out if they had access to that hanger!
What really discouraged us:
- the attackers no longer risked anything at all on the initial attack
- that something with all our stuff in it and HAS WEAPONS to defend that stuff would simply sit idle and get shot at without returning fire! Doh! Stupid game mechanic!
- the defences on them are pathetic.
-a stealth bomber fleet can indefinitely delay the repair of the structure, armour and shield of your structure. They just need to shoot it once every 14 minutes and 59 seconds and it stops. So your defence can go on a long, long time. At least with a POS you could keep repairing the shield and make it go out of reinforced as long as reps > incoming damage. That made it a battle between fleets of ships.
A structure that contains such “value” needs to have the ability to shoot back.
Note I’m not saying it can defend itself autonomously forever.
I looked on zkillboard. I can see where six ships attacked a station armed with weapons and ECM.
How much “risk” was there for these pilots?
No losses during the whole attack says it all.
Sooner or later someone was going to get lucky and be able to do a second and third attack at a point in time where our “preset” vulnerability timer didn’t allow us to defend our own stuff and our structure would go boom without so much as saying boo back.
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So what was its purpose in having automated defenses?
It stopped you needing to respond to every “little” incident.
Attackers needed to be organised and planning and co-ordination were really important.
You didn’t just rock up in whatever ship you happened to be in as a spur of the moment “lets poke this POS and see what happens”. An attack was planned and each person had a specific role to play in the attack.
The tower would auto warp scram and web so unless people were serious and going to stick around for a fight they didn’t bother shooting it at all.
For the initial attack the attackers needed to have logistics (remote repair) ships to keep the fleet alive
until the scramblers were put out of action. So you needed people with different skills and ships not just damage dealers even when the tower was unmanned.
Contrast that to the new structures. Since the unmanned structure doesn’t shoot back logistics has no useful role so you’re better off rolling up in pure damage dealers and any solo player can start banging away at your structure in a frigate during a vulnerable period to see if you respond. If no one logs in he’ll know what time you aren’t around to respond. He can call his corp mates or try this over several days / nights to see if you are active what time of day you sleep go to work etc.
If you do login the attacker sees the number of occupants in the station change and has plenty of time to warp off to a safespot that is out of weapon range.
As for the usefulness of the defences on a POS.
They could be manually controlled with the right skills and corp roles.
If competently manned they were able to make it very very difficult and costly to destroy the POS. (Since most lower class WH can’t receive the mass of an inbound capital). IE the attackers can’t just “bring in” a capital in a C1, C2 or C3 wormhole. Not sure about higher classes we didn’t ever live in them. No high sec static meant the time running supplies in was way too much effort for us to be bothered with.
In automated mode the weapons on the POS would randomly target multiple different ships rather than focus fire on one target. The damage output in automated mode was a bit variable. A ship taking heavy damage from a few guns might be able to warp out because it wasn’t warp scrambled. Also you just needed to tank the POS guns until the scrambler or guns picked a new random member of your fleet as a target. I can’t remember how long this took but it wasn’t very long. If the attackers were unlucky quite a few guns might pound one target all at once and they’d lose a ship. The more guns you had the more damage but then the more people the attackers would bring to “spread” the damage. Once the scrambler picked a new target you could warp out.
There was a certain amount of safety in number on the attack if the POS weapons weren’t actively manned.
Jammers didn’t seem to target logistics ships like they should have. Stopping remote reps should have been a priority for the automated defences bu they just randomly moved through targets like the guns.
The signature resolution of a POS was pretty high so it took a long, long time to lock a frigate sized ship Since damage from a frigate is so low these targets usually weren’t a big problem but could be used to “distract” the automated defences from picking a BS or BC. The frig warps in hangs around for a bit and warps away before lock on is achieved. Usually you’re just better off bringing more DPS or reps though.
In automated mode the defences were more use as a “buffer” than for their destructive effect.
When you attacked a tower you started shooting the scramblers first, webs second, jammers third, then the guns. Once the guns were down you started on the tower shield.
All of that took time! Especially if you spaced the webbers and scramblers around the tower making the attacking fleet slow boat between them to get in weapon range. All of this gave the defender time to call the corp and get them to login.
Once the shield got to 25% the tower would enter “reinforced mode” where no damage was possible.
This lasted until the strontium in your tower ran out. The time it left reinforced was displayed on the tower for all to see. (Like the current sructures.) So anyone who warped in could see the tower was reinforced and came out of that state. Not just the attacker and defender might be there at the time the tower rolled out of reinforced. Leading to three, four or even more fleets rolling up for the fun. Sometimes temporary alliances were formed between fleets.
We had a three way at a POCO we owned. We lost quite a few ships to a “third” party who arrived unannounced later on. (Read that as We got owned by a roaming fleet cause we got caught with our pants down whilst repairing the structure after beating off the initial hostile attackers). The third party had wanted to be there the moment the POCO came out of reinforced but getting their fleet organised took longer than expected so they missed the initial battle.
The shield radius of a large tower meant a frigate struggled to get the targeting range to lock the tower.
This means that if someone wanted to attack your POS it was worth turning out a fleet op for the fight. People wanted to login and get in on the action. You didn’t roll in to attack a POS in less than a decent BC or BS with logistics and with usually some interceptors, interdictors or frigs for fast tackle and the covert ops becaue hey this is a wormhole and you want to see what new wormholes pop up so you don’t get caught with your pants down!
A fleet of 100 guys in Atrons out on a lark for a one night roam wasn’t going to achieve much except putting a few defences outside the shield offline and having a lot of Atrons blown to pieces.
Generally invaders would try and “siege” rather than “batter down the gates”. So you’d go batter down the gates on their POS instead. So the POS attackers sometimes got turned into the defenders!
The downside was the setup time. Anchoring a POS didn’t take long but anchoring, then onlining, then
putting ammo in every gun/launcher and setting up all the hangers/hardeners/arrays etc inside the shield took hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of time! CCP later reduced anchoring times to a matter of minutes for most modules to relieve the boring burden of setup.
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I think that its probably better to have people than bots do these things.
Dickstars were just OP annoyances.
Plus though Im not a super fan of structures, they do take the guts of a week to take out, compared to a fraction of that for POSes
And they just magically happen to know that defender is going to away for next couple of day…
And they wouldn’t bash pos before… right.
Dude, you got 3 timers - and only shield is timer is gone easily.
And now it is always at the time of your choice, ±2h. Also, you maybe didn’t realize it but you can change the timer after deployment.
Yeah, and a properly fit citadel with just minimal support from defenders also requires proper fleet to take down.
Just bash it while it jams… not like being jammed by IT prevents me from shooting IT.
But has to do two additional attacks.
you got no clue how it work, right? Cause timer doesn’t just stop. It is countdown timer, similar to the one you can encounter in FW plexes. The timer countdowns to 0, and countdown is paused (NOT RESET) while citadels is receiving enough dps. Once it reaches 0 citadel enters repair timer - 15 minutes of invulnerability, after which it is back to 100% health.
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You don’t know what you’re talking about.
The timer counts down from 15:00. If it hits 0, the structure repairs and the timer ends.
Shooting the structure pauses the countdown, it does not reset it to 15:00.
If you shoot it once after 14:59, you have to continue shooting it until it’s destroyed or further reinforced, as even one more second on the timer and it will repair. You cannot just come back and shoot it again 14:59 later.
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So the structure automatically repairs itself to 100% if it doesn’t take any damage for a total of 15 minutes? And not a continuous window of 15 straight minutes but a cumulative total of 15 minutes?
The defender doesn’t need any logistics to repair the structure at all?
But the defender now needs to clear the whole grid (to prevent damage to the structure) and keep it clear for a total of 15 minutes and hey presto the station is “magically” fully repaired? Or does this just repair one layer like shields/armour/structure?
Not that my question really matters…
I see why no wonder no one bothers to defend the new structures.
No one attacks anything knowing they have “less” than the target.
A fleet where there are more attackers than defenders will always win even with the station simply based on the fact the attacker will always have at least one ship shooting the structure. The timer will never get to 0.
Especially in high sec with NPC stations in the same system. Ship gets destroyed dock at NPC station get a new one warp in.
Now I understand why a fleet of Atrons attacked a station. The station simply can’t target that many frigates fast enough to hope to win.
Stations are huge targets. You just need to split your force into smaller groups and warp in from premade safespots in various directions around the structure. As long as there are more attackers than defenders the structure is doomed. It may take time but success is a certainty.
It now sounds like whack-a-mole in space where the number of moles is the deciding factor.
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