Agree to disagree, but considering my view also matches CCP’s views i think you’re on the losing side of this disagreement
Nope, because i don’t deem ganking to be griefing, i gave you examples of the things that actually constitute griefing that happened in rookie systems, those were the reasons for those changes
Attempting to abuse a new players lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems. This includes, but is not limited to;
Tricking new players into situations where you or others may open fire on them freely
Stealing or scamming ISK or assets from them
Hindering a rookie’s progress in completing the Tutorial / NPE Arc
Stealing or scamming ISK or assets meant for Rookies is likewise covered by this policy within these systems.
These are the reasons the protection was added and ONLY in a list of specific systems, outside of that CCP deems them fair game and open to normal mechanics
Not unrelated, you specifically mentioned getting “ganked” in low sec, there is a warning in place that has to be dismissed in order to jump, if they choose to venture in to low sec and die thats a deliberate choice they made and not something that needs “protection”
Yes, because you seem to think anyone who dies to a gank is clearly a newbro, which isn’t the case
So prove it
And yet i’ve moved through those systems just fine without getting killed, could just be people don’t like you
Nope, forcing you to actually cite things you claim to be true, evidence has not been provided in the least
Oh it very much exists, sadly its not as common as the name implies mainly because people aren’t actually having to think for themselves anymore, i think your ignorance is showing
In a PvP game, shooting another player is not griefing. If I play PubG, and someone throws a grenade through the window, this will prevent me from roleplaying as a housewife cooking dinner with a frying pan. However, this is not griefing. It is simply normal gameplay. In a PvP game, the person complaining about PvP is actually the griefer, because they are trying to disrupt the game.
There’s no such thing. There’s just “player”. Players can choose to perform different activities at any given point in time, but in a game that allows for both PvP and PvE, there’s no such thing as “this” or “that” player. It would be like saying that there are “it” or “not-it” players in a game of tag, and when someone tags a “not it” player they’re “griefing” them (unless the “it” player explicitly allowed and consented to this act). This is why the argument that “griefing” is properly defined by authority (developers) and not the players themselves works so well. If players can define “griefing” by themselves, well, then they can make it mean anything on an individual level, like you did.
What about warping in on someone ratting in low-sec and killing them? You technically answered this (with your opinion) in the previous post, but I’d like a confirmation/elaboration.
In that case it was the short for “player performing a PVE activity”.
I mean, you really need huge hypocrisy effort to not understand that in the context. Here it’s obvious that “pve player” does not exist outside of context, and that I refer to players by their role, like we do in real life.
For example, when I find someone doing a site in HS, and I warp and complete the site and get the loot, or even get to the can and steal it, I am factually griefing him.
And it’s perfectly fine, and actually a part of Eve.
But yes it is grieffing. Unless he is baiting, but does not change that you want to grieffe him.
[target] is what the online world calls a griefer–someone who plays to make others cry. They stalk, hurl insults, extort, form gangs, kill and loot.
So the motivation for killing the player doesn’t matter at all, just the act does? If I’m doing it because I need the income, or if I’m defending my territory, or even if I believe that the player is bait and am testing for the possibility or attempting to remove the perceived threat, I’m still griefing him?
Anderson is going to need to edit Wikipedia, as the current definition is:
A griefer… is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game… using aspects of the game in unintended ways
I suggest the word “unintended” should be changed to “intended”.
Oh look! Wikipedia even mentions EVE:
Some space simulators, like Eve Online, have incorporated activities typically considered griefing as part of the gameplay mechanism. Corporate spying, theft, scams, gate-camping, and PvP on non-PvP players are all part of their gaming experience.
That’s literally the industry definition. It hinges on the “unintended” part, which doesn’t necessarily need to be something game-breaking like cheating, but falls outside of the normal rules of the game. This is why “griefing” and “ganking” and “killing” all have separate definitions.
Anderpson made an exceptionally weak argument today. Maybe because hungry? I can send a Snickers bar if requested.
The context is important, as always.
If we are in a competitive game, then griefing is something completely different.
And yes you are griefing them. Only in competitive games, or a competitive situation, it’s not griefing.
I think you don’t get why griefing is part of Eve. Griefing, like inflation, was a common issue in MMOs before Eve. So the answer was : instead of fighting it, let’s embrace it. Griefing actually fights inflation. That’s why I said before that ganking is actually a solution.
But yes it does. When people can’t deal with it, “forming gang, killing, looting” IS griefing. Griefing is just the disruption of someone else gameplay, for whatever reason ; this assumes the other people gameplay does not expect your disruption, which removes PVP only from the description.
For example, if I go in 1V1 arena it’s not griefing, because the gameplay expect PVP. However if I join FFA16 ppl and I band with 5 ppl to gank one, then we are griefing him.
No, griefing refers to what the customer actually expect.
In Eve, griefing is okay. Its still griefing, Destpenis Corrupted.
So since EVE is a competitive game, then it’s not griefing?
Or is EVE not a competitive game?
Is someone able to not expect disruption (in this case, being attacked by other players) in a game like EVE? I could understand that if someone got a game like Hello Kitty Online, and then suddenly someone is rocking a minigun in the town square, that might be unexpected. But EVE advertises PvP and player conflict, so not expecting PvP appears to be an irrational reaction. “Griefing” is not an excuse for irrationality. Kind of like if you charge at a celebrity for an autograph and get your legs broken by a bodyguard, you can’t just say “wow I did not expect that to happen!”
This fits into Aiko’s definition (“unintended ways”) rather than yours.
It’s not, has never been considered/advertised as such.
unrelated.
I used “expect” not “consider possible”.
waht ?
This makes no sense.
You are not expecting to be killed when you are doing your PVE activity. Otherwise you would just not undock since then undocking is a loss.
Yeah but since he claimed “correlation is causation” and is unable to realize how stupid he was, his opinion is just stupidity.
His only goal on the forum is to actually prevent discussion, AKA troll.
Why would people not expect the possibility of getting killed during their PvE activities in EVE, specifically?
Why would players necessarily refuse to undock if they did expect to be killed during their PvE activities, as opposed to making a conscious decision that the reward is worth the risk after performing a cost/benefit analysis?
That sentence is just a soup of words.
Please stick to what I actually wrote, not a distortion of what I wrote.
Are you telling me that in Eve the reward of all activities is higher than the cost of your ship ?
If yes, then you are delusional.
If no, then this question is a nonsense.
