No.
I am saying, getting ganked is an issue for them.
Them getting ganked is an issue for the game, because it makes newbro leave. The “beginner protection” from CCP is a proof they acknowledged the issue.
So when people say that ganking is not a newbro issue, actually they are wrong. For CCP it is, and IMO as long as being ganked is an issue for you, then you are a newbro.
The “fix” is IMO to make people go in NS and they learn to rely on friends, ask fits, etc. That’s what I try to do with newbros, I try to guide them in a NS corporation, I give them exploration packages if they want to dive into WS adventure ; later on they can stay in HS if they want, but at least they have the knowledge to survive, have fun, in the game.
But that’s very complex and CCP can’t afford to discard the people who just want to remain in “security” in HS and just chill. Those “everlasting newbros” are as valid customers as the hardcore WS player who logs 10h a day.
Also, in opposition to what I wrote before, this is an idea commonly accepted, to the point most newbros that get killed also receive an explanation mail, and money to buy a new ship, from their killer, when they dive in LS/NS/WS (I don’t know about pochven)
Okay… or, those of us who have long-term goals and would like to see them realized, or players who jump from short-term goals to short-term goals, or both.
I still think player retention problem is just people who’ve decided that EVE isn’t for them… Or those who have realized that it will take them years to become good to the point of doing what they really want to do and don’t want to go through the grind.
Also, lots of people realize that the way to really play is to be Omega to have access to all the skills and ships and modules and they just refuse to pay, it’s their prerogative.
I’m not even so sure there’s a retention “problem”.
People who pvp in low sec will typically have their safety set red. While it’s advisable to set it to yellow when flying through high sec to avoid accidents, many do not do so since they typically don’t shoot people in high sec anyways, and forgetting to return it to red when returning to low sec means you may miss that oh so valuable pod kill.
Those are not mutually exclusive to the two cases I have made. Infact they are easily contained within them. But is the goal worth reaching if the journey is boring and meaningless in of itself? Does the goal have mewaning if it only exists to “unlock” (sic) the next level of goal to reach?
I dunno if retention is the problem, the problem to me is a game so devoid of people, that robots have to be tolerated to make it look alive. And thats most because the game activity is designed to be boring as hell.
If you don’t want to see the problem… Then you won’t see the problem.
I talked with countless newbros, made several join a NS corporation with success, or go into WS.
Even among those who are willing to lose to learn, there is something that makes them reluctant to actually go on a risky operation.
IMO (I may be wrong) it’s just that the mechanisms in Eve are stupid. There are a lot of things that actually make no sense. Example is the term “security” for HS, which implies you have a security in HS while you actually don’t. Another example is the AP feature which is suicide. Or the need for insta docks. People believe that letting your drones out when someone attacks your MTU will make them attack the grieffer and you a viable target. Not to even talk about the triglavian attacking you in HS, or agents sending you to LS.
The game is just stupid. There are a lot of small things that make it stupid, counter intuitive, lacking in the domain of consistency.
The goals themselves make the game less boring, as long as there’s a sense of purpose the boredom is bearable and has meaning to it. For me at least.
I don’t see that. I see real people playing the game. I always get answered when I PM and the local chat is alive with real people unless there’s only six cats in system.
It can get boring as hell, true. That’s when I start hunting and blowing sh- up, lol
That’s fine and all, but aside from just talking about it, what’s the intent of this acknowledgement? What do you think should be done?
This is too much of a catch-all interpretation. I think that getting ganked is an issue for everyone, just to a different extent. I got ganked a few times, including multi-billion ISK losses. Did it make me quit? No. But it was an issue for me. In fact, it was probably more of an issue for me than losing a cheap T1 ship to someone who’s only been playing for a few days. And if the argument is that, well, I understand the impact of what happened and why, but the new player doesn’t, and that’s why the new player quits, then I will say that many if not most players of my age who would take a ganking loss on the level that I took would quit the game. In fact, I would bet money that a bigger ratio of old players would quit from taking an 10-figure loss than genuinely new players would from an easily-replaceable, cheap loss. I’ve seen 3 such quits in the past 2-3 weeks. I rarely if ever see such quits from new players in the newb-friendly corporations I sit in on some of my lowbie alts. But maybe the support of the player-run corporation has something to do with it, and new players sitting in NPC corporations quit at higher rates (not something I have the power to confirm).
Maybe the best “solution” to ganking is to not have new players sit in NPC corporations for so long?
Dont get me wrong, tbh I broadly agree and am really just having a vent. I tell folk about goal orientated playstyles all the time. Its just, I must be gettin old as I m starting to have a harder time thinking of new goals and more time just hauling for easy isk.
I wish I couldve got into that, maybe Id have seen new life in the game.
Eh VARGUR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc and similarly named bags of bots/alts are really my bugbear. Its just farming. Doesnt really matter if its bots or alts, its still not something that I can interact with.
The boringest part is the sludge of the game that exists to try and spin out some depth.
Like, I dont mind CCP making manufacturing more difficult, In fact I love it, Ive never been richer, but instead of making it even more boring to think about building something, they should have just made the resources even scarcer.
One belt per system, for example. One to three PI-ableplanets at most per system.
PI that REQUIRED either Sim City or DUST to be played to make it more than just “Place farm, wait till harvest”
If you were able to do that ( bless your heart ) then there’s really no problem, is there?
Because they are cheapskates who don’t want to lose a little ISK to have fun.
I doubt anyone would disagree with you there.
Yes. After all those years CCP still hasn’t gotten around to ironing them mechanics that make certain aspects of the game stupid. But hey, they’re far from being perfect but the game is way worth playing.
If it was an issue then you were still a newbro.
I’m not talking about the loss incurred by the gank, of course a loss is a loss and an issue in itself ; but by the seer fact of being ganked. If it seemed to you the game arbitrarily made you die in your investment, then being ganked was an issue for you, as there is nothing worse than being arbitrarily punished in a game : our brain needs a form of social justice. If however you realized your mistake by yourself, then you had no issue with the gank (but with the loss of course).
When you begin a game, you have the learning of the game which is a good thing, and the punishment which is a deterrent. When you have punished it means you did not learn correctly, and being punished while you tried can make the progression balance negative.
(of course being ganked is the general case of being killed here ; not actually needing a gang kill)
Unrelated. People being able to join a corp they like in the game is not related to people having issues with the beginning of the game.
Toxic attitude again.
Fact is, people are very reluctant to losses, so you need to give them assets they can lose. It’s like the basic tension in a transistor, you need to overcome the initial potential diff to make the current flow.
I meant I may be wrong about the causation, not the stupidity.
Maybe people nowadays are more able to cope with stupidity than I am and therefore the game being stupid is less of an issue that it seems to me. No judgement, just saying that’s my opinion.
There’s also a strange idea among many players old and new that anything under T2/Faction blingchariots are “useless”? that you “cant” do stuff in “sub-optimal” fits?
Thats because people were suspect baiting in rookie systems when people barely even knew how to undock, not the same thing, ganking isn’t griefing anyway its literally part of the core gameplay experience, the rookie systems were only added to that list to prevent actual griefing of newbros until they had a chance to learn atleast a couple of game mechanics
Rocket science, this is not
Getting killed in low sec isn’t ganking and there is a warning on the gate that jumping in to it can get you killed without a concord response, you’re literally opting-in to PvP when you venture in to low
Link the killmails of the newbros who get ganked in something that wasn’t expensive enough and completely untanked enough that killing it was actually profitable, because you’ll find the majority of them are going to be idiots moving valuables in T1 haulers with no tank or on autopilot with expensive cargo, you seem to be under the impression that people get ganked for literally no reason, which isn’t the case in jita because its not worth wasting your timers and ships for no return
He will only die if he is worth killing, i can autopilot empty frigates through those systems all day and not get ganked once, because its just not worth the ISK
Yet you’ve as of yet not shown that it is something they have to deal with unless they have made numerous deliberate bad choices that lead them to this point
Thats some impressive mental gymnastics there, ganking is only a problem to people who take very very stupid risks like hauling 800mil in cargo in an expander fit iteron 5 through uedama
Common sense cannot be taught and the main issue is people coming to EVE thinking it works the same as other MMO’s in that the game is essentially still single player, doesn’t work like that here