Hi all, thank you for pointing to me the Python fitting tool and giving me some tips. I made some practical simulations and some… not so practical ones because I got carried away with too much fun.
I have designed some "bad " fits that I found funny like EWAR on ships that don’t get bonuses for them. However, I made it so that modules are always put to some use even if the ship isn’t likely to do so. There is no way to swap out a module in these fits and be a always strictly better. You can easily switch out one module and be better in 99% of the situations, but the misplaced module will be useful in some unlikely case.
I should specify I meant better in the sense of the roles I supply, not in general. For example, if I had a fit that included a mining laser in a ship where I said the role was for fleet battles, replacing it with a turret would be always strictly better. If I had a venture where I said the role was low sec mining, 2 mining lasers would not be considered always strictly better than 1 mining laser and an artillery turret on the off chance that the venture was attacked, it took a pot shot, its allies came to avenge it, and that one potshot was the difference between one enemy warping away or being destroyed, but we all can agree the 2 mining lasers is smart and the other configuration is dumb.
So replacing a tackle module on a ship with a shield one when it is unlikely to ever tackle anything and very likely to be shot would not be always strictly better. Even replacing an empty slot with a shield module would not be always strictly better because the signature radius matters for other things besides damage calculation. A hypothetical module replacing an empty which tripled the explosion radius of a missile and its base damage would always be strictly be better because unless I screwed up my math, there are no possible values where it does less damage. A module replacing an empty one with one that made all “non precision non fury” light missiles increase explosion radius by 125%, tripled its flight velocity, and increased its damage by 41% would not since it would now have trouble with frigates. A module alternative that increases capacitor use is not always strictly better. For tanking I considered two possibilities: EHP based on default simulation and EHP when being hit by blaster antimatter ammo. In my little exercise, I considered always strictly better to increased HP in both circumstances if a module change only increased one but decreased the other, I considered it not always strictly better. I didn’t feel like testing it for every weapon. I feel like I’ve checked all the modules and the CPU requirements and there is no way to make any always strictly better improvements to the ships even though they can be made a lot more practical by module replacement.
Why would I use any of these ships? Well, I probably wouldn’t. But if I did, it would be for some comedy value. If I wanted to be practical… well a wise veteran once said
But if Prince Morion had survived his fictional story and game as a ghost to advise players of EVE (instead of advising the Martells or whoever ghosts might run into in Westros), he would make suggestions like these… or maybe some variation with more empty modules instead of practical ones. Prince Morion would sincerely believe these to be good if left to theoreycraft and it’s possible the only thing that might make him realize his error is seeing other players using his craft in action, just as it was possible he realized in the last five minutes of his life that a fleet wouldn’t stand well to three dragons. I say possible because we’ll never know because fans only know his train of thought right up to the point he set sail, his ship died with all hands.
I’m also going to define “big fight” as any fight where the smaller side has 30 ships of cruiser class or bigger regardless of the number of smaller ships. It seems to use less words than “fight with one side bringing 30 ships with signature radius 90 m or larger” even though it’s non sensical to count a fight with capital ships “not big” if they didn’t bring enough subcaps.
So with that out of the way, let me introduce to everyone to Prince Morion’s fits!
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[Dragoon, Capacitor Trader]
Syndicate Damage Control
Reactive Armor Hardener
200mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
1MN Analog Booster Afterburner
Aergia Compact Magnetometric ECM
Domination Small Cap Battery
Small ‘Upir’ Energy Nosferatu
Small Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer
Small ‘Upir’ Energy Nosferatu
Imperial Navy Small Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Small ‘Upir’ Energy Nosferatu
Small Thermal Armor Reinforcer I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Trimark Armor Pump II
‘Augmented’ Acolyte x1
‘Augmented’ Hobgoblin x1
‘Augmented’ Hornet x1
‘Integrated’ Acolyte x1
‘Integrated’ Hobgoblin x1
Federation Navy Hammerhead x1 (Active)
Federation Navy Hobgoblin x1
Hammerhead II x1
Hammerhead SD-600 x1
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x1
Vespa EC-600 x1
Alpha: 0 (drones don’t give alpha strike, they won’t even fire at the same time)
EHP: 9851
Align Time: 6.19
Roles:
Helping a fleet Killing Low Sec Gate Campers after they fired on someone
Helping a fleet help Friendly Dreadnought (with modules equipped solely for anti-captial warfare so no HAW) nearby a friendly Astrahus (which it obviously cannot dock with) in a system where there are no other upwell structures and the only other structures in system are friendly ones that don’t have timers (there are starbases in the game with no timers that can just be bashed away) that is being attacked by a subcapital fleet that outnumbers the friendly fleet. The friendly fleet can’t light cynos and there aren’t any such modules in inventory because someone messed up. The Dreadnought is the concern, the other stuff is just “please go after those instead”
Helping a fleet in a “big fight” in Low Sec mining belts or ice belts when enemies showed up despite the fact that miners have been able to use Retrivers for 3 weeks without being molested once in the entire constellation, implying the systems were once safe.
So what have we here?
There aren’t any weapons!
The ship can fly around, trying to suck capacitor from enemy ships and giving allies as much cap as possible. It needs to rely on the fleet because it doesn’t have any drone upgrades.
Damage control, Armor Hardener, and 200mm Plates give it some buffer. The fact that 200mm plates instead of 400mm ones on a destryoer are being used is a sign that too much power grid is being used by other modules and the fit might not be optimal. There is an armor repairer, although that doesn’t matter if the ship gets alphaed.
The Afterburner provides some speed. The ECM could be useful, but it isn’t likely to jam anyone larger than a frigate because there is no bonus of ECM strength, so most of the time it does nothing. I suppose it could jam a drone, but I don’t think drones suffer from jams, sensor damps, or capacitor draining. the battery lets it transfer more capacitor to allies.
The main part of the fit involves the capacitor warfare modules in the high slots. It aims to help other cap warfare ships, presumably ones with more practical fits, drain a target dry. If fighting a destroyer with a low capacitor total, the Dragoon can just give some cap to allies so that the next cycle of the Energy Neutralizer brings the capacitor to 8% so the Energy Nosferatu can work again.
We have a nice drone fleet ready to dish out damage. In fact it’s the only source of damage.
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[Dragoon, I Can’t Commit]
Syndicate Damage Control
Reactive Armor Hardener
200mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Unit D-34343’s Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer
1MN Analog Booster Afterburner
Aergia Compact Magnetometric ECM
Compact Thermal Shield Hardener
Small ‘Upir’ Energy Nosferatu
Small Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer
Small ‘Upir’ Energy Nosferatu
125mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Thorium Charge S
Small ‘Upir’ Energy Nosferatu
Small Thermal Armor Reinforcer I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Trimark Armor Pump II
‘Augmented’ Acolyte x1
‘Augmented’ Hobgoblin x1
‘Augmented’ Hornet x1
‘Integrated’ Acolyte x1
‘Integrated’ Hobgoblin x1
Federation Navy Hammerhead x1
Federation Navy Hobgoblin x1
Hammerhead II x1
Hammerhead SD-600 x1
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x1
Vespa EC-600 x1
Alpha: 32.7
EHP: 10048
Align Time: 6.19
Roles: See Capacitor Trader, it’s the same thing
There is a similar energy neutralization build, but what do we have here? Are we trying to shoot something? But if so, why not use all the turret slots and have two energy neutralization modules? Oh there is ECM again. What is going on? It tries to do three things and doesn’t do any of them well.
Also Pyfa claims this build works, but every time I do the math, the CPU is not enough. Maybe it rounds incorrectly or maybe I just screwed up the math. If anyone with good fitting skills and too much time on their hands want to check if this is possible, please do.
Starting with the low slots, the ship has three tanking modules. Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer increases the range of the drones, but their orbiting pattern is to put them in their base optimal range, so it’s most useful either when the drone is approaching and shooting or against someone trying to outrun a drone.
There is a propulsion module as usual. An ECM that isn’t going to be much help. And then there is a shield tanking module when there are two armor tanking modules already.
Drone bay is same.
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[Dragoon, Got to Go Fast]
Syndicate Damage Control
Reactive Armor Hardener
Compact Layered Energized Membrane
Synthetic Hull Conversion Nanofiber Structure
1MN Analog Booster Afterburner
Astro-Inertial Compact Missile Guidance Computer
Unit D-34343’s Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link
125mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Guristas Thorium Charge S
125mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Guristas Thorium Charge S
125mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Guristas Thorium Charge S
Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Light Missile
Small ‘Upir’ Energy Nosferatu
Small Thermal Armor Reinforcer I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Trimark Armor Pump II
‘Augmented’ Acolyte x1
‘Augmented’ Hobgoblin x1
‘Augmented’ Hornet x1
‘Integrated’ Acolyte x1
‘Integrated’ Hobgoblin x1
Federation Navy Hammerhead x1
Federation Navy Hobgoblin x1
Hammerhead II x1
Hammerhead SD-600 x1
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x1
Vespa EC-600 x1
Alpha: 268
EHP: 8261
Algin Time: 4.99
Role: It’s the same three as the Capacitor Trader
This one actually has a full rack of weapons. It can chase down targets a lot easier with the extra speed, but it lacks a tackle, so what’s it going to do when up and close? Oh the railgun is meant to be a long range weapon and the Dragoon gets bonuses to capacitor warfare range, meaning it can do its job without getting too up close.
I tried so hard to get a fit with the high slot fit of 3 125mms, a missile launcher, a capacitor warfare module, fitting the damage control, reactive armor hardener, and an armor module, putting an oversized 10NM afterburner, and leaving no empty slots with either 1 Engineering low module, 1 engineer rig, or 1 engineer rig and power diagnostic systems. Sadly the oversized AB only works with 2 engineering rigs or 1 engineering rig and 1 engineer module not named “power diagnostic system” It would have been so cool, if a bit impractical, for the go fast theme.
In the low slots, there are three tanking modules, but no armor plates. This fit wants speed, and nothing on it will slow it down. In fact, there is sacrifice of some HP just to get even more speed with those nanofibers.
There is the usual 1NM Afterburner. Since this fit is cap stable unlike capacitor trader, it will take on a module to benefit the drones instead of a battery. It ditches the unlikely to be used ECM in favor of buffing the missiles. It is almost certainly better to buff the turrets, but if Got to Go Fast is running away from the enemy, buffing the missile is better.
The three 125 Railguns are the main damage dealers of the fit. It sports a single missile launcher for some extra damage. To finish it off, there is an Energy Nosferatu, which doesn’t make much sense since it is cap stable if it was an empty slot so why not use an energy neutralizer? Well, if anyone tried cap warfare on Go to Go Fast, they won’t be able to drain it and it can keep that afterburner going.
The most practical part of the fit is the drones, featuring damage, ECM, and logistics.
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[Dragoon, Doneboat Cat Hunter]
Syndicate Damage Control
Reactive Armor Hardener
400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Unit D-34343’s Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
1MN Analog Booster Afterburner
[Empty Med slot]
Unit D-34343’s Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Small ‘Upir’ Energy Nosferatu
Small Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer
Small ‘Upir’ Energy Nosferatu
Unit D-34343’s Modified Drone Link Augmentor
Small ‘Upir’ Energy Nosferatu
Small Thermal Armor Reinforcer I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit II
Small Trimark Armor Pump II
‘Augmented’ Acolyte x1
‘Augmented’ Hobgoblin x1
‘Augmented’ Hornet x1
‘Integrated’ Acolyte x1
‘Integrated’ Hobgoblin x1
Federation Navy Hammerhead x1
Federation Navy Hobgoblin x1
Hammerhead II x1
Hammerhead SD-600 x1
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x1
Vespa EC-600 x1
Alpha: 0
EHP: 10225
Align Time: 6.61
Role: Winning a 7 Dragoons and 1 Magnate vs 7 Catalyst fight, where the Magnate is equipped with tackle and propulusion modules instead of exploration ones, but has remote armor repair, drone link augmentor and Energy Nosferatu instead of actual weapons. Unlike most of the fits here, I think this ship actually the assigned role well. Unfortunately, it’s a silly one since why would anyone put a tackle module on a Magnate?
This is supposed to suck the Catalysts dry and use its enhanced drones to tear them apart. In the role intended, there are no thrashers to worry about. Unlike most of the ships on this list which would not be too good at their supplied roles (helping a Dreadnought when you have an ECM module on a ship with no bonuses to it), I think Doneboat Cat Hunter can actually do it’s supplied role.
There are 3 tanking modules in the low slots. This time 400mm Armor Plates are used, so that’s a good sign since it’s troubling when a destroyer needs to downside to 200mm. A drone amplifier is used to increase drone damage.
Moving on to the mid slots, there is a propulsion module and another drone boosting module. Sadly, I couldn’t fit anything in the mid slot. The Dragoon’s potential as a done boat is somewhat limited by CPU since it was difficult for me to fit drone boosting modules in low, mid, and high.
There are the capacitor warfare modules and another drone boost, this time for range. This is a bit silly since Catalysts would engage in blaster range and you wouldn’t need range of drone commands, but hey it’s the only high module for drones.
Finally for the drones is the most sensible part of the fitting. It has varied damage output and some utility.
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[Brutix, I’m Hulk I Mean Hull]
Unit D-34343’s Modified Damage Control
Reactive Armor Hardener
Federation Navy 400mm Steel Plates
Centum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
ORE Reinforced Bulkheads
Synthetic Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads
Corelum A-Type 50MN Microwarpdrive
Federation Navy Warp Scrambler
Aergia Compact Magnetometric ECM
Unit D-34343’s Modified Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Caldari Navy 200mm Railgun, Thorium Charge M
Caldari Navy 200mm Railgun, Thorium Charge M
Caldari Navy 200mm Railgun, Thorium Charge M
Armor Command Burst II, Armor Reinforcement Charge
‘Slither’ Heavy Electron Blaster I, Void M
650mm Medium Prototype Siege Cannon, Arch Angel Depleted Uranium M
Skirmish Command Burst I, Evasive Maneuvers Charge
Medium Command Processor I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Transverse Bulkhead II
‘Augmented’ Hammerhead x1
‘Integrated’ Infiltrator x1
‘Integrated’ Vespa x1
‘Subverted’ JVN-UC49 x1
Federation Navy Ogre x1
Alpha: 657
EHP: 61K
Align Time: 10.5
Role: Same three roles as three of the Dragoon fits
So this is designed with a combination of hull and armor tanking. “I am hull” indeed. It was mostly supposed to smash stuff and tank some damage. I thought it was going to be completely stupid something Prince Morion would come up with, but the EHP result was rather surprising. I bet there is a viable fit out there with either 3 Reinforced Bulkheads, or 2 Reinforced Bulkheads and a Transverse Bulkhead. So to make the fit somewhat silly, the high slots are a huge mess. The artillery turret would come in handy if the ship ran out of capacitor, but otherwise it just sucks since it doesn’t get the range bonus the railguns do.
Damage control, armor hardener, and a plate starts off the usual fitting. Then there is the armor repairer and the bulkhead upgrades. The bulkhead upgrades take advantage of the ship’s structure hitpoints and the armor repairer goes well with the ship’s bonus, as long as the ship doesn’t get wiped out with artillery alpha strike.
There is a propulsion module to keep the ship moving. Unlike the other ships who move as fast as possible all the time, I Am Hulk I Mean Bulk just wants to get into a good position and stay there. There is a tackle module in the unlikely case the ship wants to tackle anything. And there is the not so useful ECM. At least a drone module does something useful.
Then come the guns. The Railguns are the true heroes, able to nail the enemy from a long range. Since this is a fit Prince Morion would approve, there are two off group turrets. One is a blaster, good if anyone got in range, but since the ship isn’t supposed to get close it mostly stays idle. The other is artillery. Artillery loves long range, but on this ship it lacks the range bonuses the railguns have. The armor command burst is a good use on this ship. Using two command bursts on this ship means it forgoes a rig slot.
The drones are damage dealing ones, mainly focused on medium scout drones.
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[Tempest Fleet Issue, Hit far and Armor Protects]
Syndicate Damage Control
Reactive Armor Hardener
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Imperial Navy 1600mm Steel Plates
Domination Thermal Armor Hardener
True Sansha Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Unit D-34343’s Modified Drone Damage Amplifier
100MN Analog Booster Afterburner
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Brynn’s Modified Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Brynn’s Modified Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Brynn’s Modified Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
1400mm ‘Jolt’ Artillery I, Tremor L
1400mm ‘Jolt’ Artillery I, Tremor L
1400mm ‘Jolt’ Artillery I, Tremor L
1400mm ‘Jolt’ Artillery I, Tremor L
1400mm ‘Jolt’ Artillery I, Tremor L
1400mm ‘Jolt’ Artillery I, Tremor L
‘Arbalest’ Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Federation Navy Inferno Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I
Unit D-34343’s Modified Drone Link Augmentor
Large Thermal Armor Reinforcer II
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Explosive Armor Reinforcer I
‘Augmented’ Infiltrator x1
Caldari Navy Hornet x1
Federation Navy Hammerhead x1
Federation Navy Ogre x3
Alpha: 5606
EHP: 151K
Align Time: 16.1
Role: See Previous Ship
The idea is to use heavy artillery to blast away stuff at long range. From what I’ve seen with the thrasher, it looks like artillery ships love shield tanking, so to find out what Prince Morion would like I’m going to make a silly Tempest fit using armor tanking. I’m not sure what should go into the mid slots, so I decided to look at some sensible fittings and then mix and match sensible modules with less ideal ones. We have a Minmatar ship pretending it’s an Ammar drone boat with guns strapped to it.
There are tanking modules to make for a durable armor tank. The gyrostabilizer and drone module amplify damage.
A battleship with an afterburner is better than no propulsion module, but it’s going to take a long time to get anywhere with it. I included a cap battery since the sensible ships had cap boosters, but I don’t know why. Maybe battleships with stasis webs need the cap and non-laser battleships that ditch them don’t need them? This module was supposed to be one of the more reasonable ones, but the more I think about it, even a tech I Omnidirectional Tracking Link would be more useful. Maybe this is one of the modules Prince Morion would unironically approve even though I’m trying to be a sensible one? Then the other module just extend the optimal range by a lot.
Coming up next is the artillery. Just use Tremor shells to blow everything up. The heavy missile launcher is supposed to be used against cruisers since I’m told heavy missiles are better than cruise missiles against them. The drone link augmenter allows the ship to pretend it’s an Amarr drone boat.
The Ogres probably do most of the work of the drones, but there are medium drones replace any losses suffered.
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[Sigil, Where is the BPs for the Deep Space Transport?]
Unit D-34343’s Modified Damage Control
Reactive Armor Hardener
400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
400mm Steel Plates II
Syndicate 400mm Steel Plates
True Sansha Multispectrum Energized Membrane
10MN Analog Booster Afterburner
Compact Thermal Shield Hardener
‘Delineative’ Warp Scrambler
Baker Nunn Enduring Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
200mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Guristas Thorium Charge M
Dread Guristas Cloaking Device
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Thermal Armor Reinforcer I
Alpha: 82
EHP: 33K
Align Time: 8.86
Roles: Low Sec Transportation with Frigate Escort, bait ship with a gun.
The title was inspired by something funny that happened. I was in a system 7 jumps away from high sec. I saw 3 BPOs for Dragoons and I thought to myself “wow, those are overpriced” and then an hour later someone bought all of them. He then started making trade offers… and I found that he was offering 10 BPCs of Dragoons at 3 ME and 3 TE for 3 times the cost of a single Jita BPO. And someone bought them! He then offered the same deal to me. And I’m like “no, that’s overpriced” and he said “you can fly to Jita if you want” and someone in my alliance actually took his deal later. At least my corpmates didn’t buy that lemon… or maybe it in fact was a deal.
So I imagine a story where someone wants to fly a Deep Space Transport, but he can’t build one, so he used an Industrial instead. But then his corpmates want a ship that can be bait for the gate-campers and can live long enough for help to arrive. Prince Morion decided to give the player advice to make sure the same Sigil did both roles. As a result, it can do both equally mediocrely.
All of the low slots do is help tank… and most of them increase align time.
The afterburner is trying to be useful as a bait that can move, and it tries to do a worse version of the MWD cloak idea. The thermal hardener doesn’t do much. It better be turned off once capacitor reaches 82% because if left on the ship will be drained dry in 10 minutes. What’s a good bait ship without a warp scrambler, what if the other side runs away when the cavalry arrive? And let’s take a tracking disruptor but put on a script that makes it worthless.
The gun is so that the ship can fire, because of the idea that any ship without drones needs some firepower. The cloaking device can help the ship hide it wanted to. Alas, it can’t to the MWD and cloak. Look at that awful align time.
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Well, I hope you all enjoyed a good laugh at these. I’m going to laugh if anyone actually not only flew one of these fits, but flew with 2 allies using the same fit in a fleet, actually kill someone with the fit, and then be in the winning fleet. I think the only fit here that can be somewhat good at the role is that cat hunter, and it’s a silly one since a Magnate wouldn’t be a tackler anyways.