Destiny being Destiny again…
Heh…
…heh… …heh… …heh…
Well put, Destiny.
For a long time, my engagement with your spectrum hovered between the first two possible responses to nerfs to suicide ganking.
It only became necessary for me to consider the third option when the number of accounts I needed to run in order to maintain operations at previous levels, became prohibitively expensive, and a tiresome click-fest into the bargain.
It doesn’t really matter how cheaply you can buy or build Catalysts and fit them for T2 operations; if you have to sub or PLEX a number of extra accounts to make effective use of those assets, the nerf becomes punitive - and clearly instrumental in reducing the incidence of Highsec suicide-ganking.
Yet, that is still not enough to mollify many of the anti-gankers, who remain steadfast in their view that ganking is overpowered.
I should here state that I have no interest in ganking freighters. You will not find me haunting the systems around Jita.
Thus, all the detail in the world - if it is tied purely to in-game considerations - will not present a full picture of the cost of suicide-ganking.
I don’t believe I have any right to pursue such activities without hindrance; nor do I believe that CCP should make ganking affordable in terms of my personal finances.
I always, always have a choice.
7 Likes
This is why all of their proposals center around the ISK-tanking method of balancing ganking gameplay. They’re trying to publicly frame this gameplay element as a zero-sum issue while being fully aware that it’s a spectrum, because it’s really favorable for them to do so.
Ganking will be “balanced” for them when the only profitable targets are those that are worth at least 23 billion ISK, and need 117 shooters to kill. Then as everyone drops off from the activity, they’ll barf up their routine “heh, gwankers couldn’t adapt! …heh…” responses. And if by some chance someone does adapt, then they’ll move the goal posts to ganking being balanced when the only profitable targets are those that are worth at least 47 billion ISK, and need 233 shooters to kill.
Between the last round of massive EHP buffs and today, over a third of the ganking community has disappeared. The ones who remain need to use many additional accounts to be able to engage in this activity. This is the inconvenient truth that these people ignore. Their goal, of course, is 0% engagement, but they want to achieve that goal in a way that allows the act of ganking to be technically, but not practically possible.
9 Likes
Technically they arnt ignoring it. They just dont care. 
Yet just one more nerf.
2 Likes
Such a simplistic reading, it is not so much that ganking needs nerfing, as in AG needs buffing. As I no longer really partake in that content, but have significant experience in it, something you don’t have by the way I can confidently say that this is what needs looking at.
As I keep saying this from exeprience, perhaps you, @Destiny_Corrupted and @Sasha_Nemtsov may develop some understanding, but I would not hold my breath on it. AG is the real PvP in ganking taht develops real interest and real comptetition, perhaps if this was a thing then CONCORD could be lightened a bit, but you are so far gone you cannot see the wood for the trees, your dream of removing CONCORD is never going to happen if there are no one interested in this PvP content.
In terms of the cost based on Catalysts, it is too low, to have a freighter limited to 1bn of cargo based on this is just unbalanced, it is of course my opinion, but one shared by many including the OP. If there was someway to do this, well actually there is, a spectrum lock breaker module as previously designed for the BS class and specifically designed for a freighter only, with another module possible in the mid that allows faster warp speed, so people can chose whether to be safer with that module that defends against gankers using cheap massed catalysts against a module that gets them around faster. That is what I would do, choices should have consequences…
Toodle pip on trying to get your brain around that one…
The OP’s original post indicates 30 catalysts would be required. Isnt that in itself a degree of difficulty contributes to the balance?
Just going to leave this here
1 Like
A really good example of this was in a 4 years old thread where I suggested that CONCORD spawning and CONCORD pulling mechanics should be removed.
Typically gank-haters (I refuse to all them anti-gankers as majority of them will not put any effort into stopping the gankers in game, not because it has no sense, but because that would be an actual effort they would have to do and they wouldn’t be able to afk mine while doing that) emerged and vocally objected to that suggestion claiming it is huge buff to the ganking and/or that gankers should be facing as many adversity as possible because what they do is unhealthy to the game and other nonsense.
The thread is very interesting to re-read 4 years after. And it is sad that this is still a thing considering the nerfs that ganking received over those 4 years.
Merely because the person is engaging in hisec space with a mechanic designed to limit PvP. You don’t understand that, and neither does Scipio, because a solo catalyst can take down a freighter in all other space, but in hisec the NPC police come to the rescue, sort of, so what, live with it…
Jesus, and it is exactly because CONCORD arrives that you cannot have meaningful and enjoyable PvP against gankers that you always spout that you want. Can’t you see it?
4 Likes
I gave the angle of this above, can’t you see that there needs to be people actively getting in the way of gankers for CCP to even contemplate it, keep dreaming because unless there are people actively working against gankers your dream will be a dream.
Would you be happy for people to be given the enforcer role in hisec where I can engage anyone up to no good, and because I adhere to certain principles in game like Anti-Pirate and NRDS that I am given this responsibility by CCP, but in return I have no protection from CONCORD while carrying out this role, as in while I am engaged against a criminal?
Better still allow me to run a corp that is exempt from CONCORD when they attack anyone and I police who is in the corp based on sticking to killing only criminals and people linked to criminals.
And if this works we can reduce CONCORD?
How long does it take a single catalyst to take down a freighter in other space? Surely a competant pilot would have members of his corp on standby if he/she is moving a freighter.
Based on the figures in the table the original poster put together that you are saying shows the problem so well………it would take over 10minutes for that actalyst to take down the freighter. Is it unreasonable to expect that a response fleet could be put together in that time? or that a standing fleet could come to help? Why is this an issue?
- What is this ? A nerf ganking thread or a player idea thread ? It can’t be both.
- However elaborate the number juggling, the premise of the OP was false.
- EvE online is not a “pick PvE OR PvP” game. Neither is the world flat.
- Too many assumptions based on ignorance of factual gameplay.
Where ? Too many to sum up.
The quote below shows the real purpose. It’s not about ship / CONCORD balance…
“Harassment” for being a potential pvp target in an open pvp game ?! You want a different game, not EvE Online.
4 Likes
Boy, they sure like to use the “c” word, don’t they?
It’s like their most favorite concept ever, as long as it’s applied to exactly one very specific subset of players they’re not very fond of and literally no one else.
A fleet shouldn’t be necessary in either case. You fail to understand that unlike you, these people are playing a PvE game. They were never here for the crap you’re trying to push on them, and shouldn’t have to jump through any hoops to get the gameplay they paid for. You’ve invaded their world and are polluting it with your unwelcome malfeasance.
And Destiny, Etch and others fail to see the difference between higher security as compared to lower security and no security. It is the game mechanics and you moan like crazy about the fact that your chose to carry out your PvP in hisec? Seriously?
Enlighten us.
If he were mentally equipped to be able to enlighten anyone of anything, he wouldn’t be making all of these self-gratifying, asinine posts he makes, and in fact wouldn’t even hold the viewpoints that he holds.
He’s just a mindless consumer. It took Cilly just three months to realize that these people are basically wildebeests. If wildebeests could make forum posts, I bet they’d be asking for increased protection against the lions too. They just want to play their PvE grazing game, and the sociopath predators are getting in the way of that.
3 Likes
Oh and btw, the reasons that catalysts, thrashers and coercers and some cruisers are used for ganking is not that much about the actual cost, especially for those doing it on a big scale as they are funded by other ppls or they are simply liquidating hundreds billions of ISK they farmed in nullsec before they started doing this, but also logistic or industry difficulty of getting these ships where you want them.
And this apply to both getting the ships to your staging area - not everyone has an alt with bowhead/freighter skills, or other player willing to bring them 500 stealth bombers, hecates, taloses, oracles or whatever other big and expensive ship you would like to force us to use (or raw crystals needed to manufacture them) every now and then where they need it. They don’t have mining alts to mine this themselves either (and even if they had them, when they are supposed to use them? During 15min wait timer that gets effectively reduced to half because we must pull CONCORD?) and they don’t have industry alts to manufucture them either (meaning t2/t3 ships).
And this apply also to the fact that, often you need to travel with them several jumps. Jumping with cruisers/bc is painful experience.
Another reason for catalysts over steath bombers is of course skill requirement - I don’t know exactly how many SP and how much time is that, but it will be a lot. And you and OP are obviously not taking this into account to the price of the gank as always.
What about you actually made the real calculation for a miner player who decides, that mining isn’t profitable enough and ganking is the easy way to make huge profits in very little time, so that he wants to try gank freighters with stealth bombers using multi boxing (because the past nerfs to ganking, sub cost increase and highsec getting town of ghosts these days are effectively removed party play from this activity) and he wants to do it now, not after 3 years of training SP. Now that would be finally realistic calculation.
All I see is a group of entitled players who seem to think that the developer owes them the ability to do their farming in what is safer space. It should not be easy!
1 Like
Exactly. And in high sec ganking is a challenege to be over come. Its essentially the sole difficulty.
So if you dont want it to be easy why are you constantly arguing for ganking to be more difficult making things EASIER?
3 Likes