You are assuming a new player stays dumb forever. Pushing it down the road only makes the player more knowledgeable to the game, understands how to play, and understands the real risk.
JJ
In a way, I kind of agree with this.
Okay, so what if the new players today aren’t looking for that grimdark dystopic space game where nowhere is safe? Then. CCP would have to change the core value of the game to meet the new expectation.
I’m curious to see if that is the kind of atmosphere the younger generation whats.
Ah yes. He needs pointing out that the NPE particularly stresses the killing of player ships. Perhaps they’ll be working on the New NPE now. Moreover, let me just mention that, as a customer and a long time EvE fan, that I’m not terribly impressed with “when they see what we’re doing in EvE they will be back”…
Undoubtedly in the same spirit and of the same quality as “my terminology is that alts are alts”.
And by narrowing the sink hole a bit (which is still a point of skepticism, because, you know, no public data available) they would postpone the inevitable ? Great plan !..
Odd that the ship removal of a few rookies would result in a significant effort from ccp. They’ve got far bigger fish to fry, if they read this forum and that other one. Your posture of “it does not need to be a major factor in order to be removed” is hilarious. In fact the whole rookie dropout thing is a strawman.
Odd to see that a possible change to rookie griefing (Rattati/Kelly version) would not be a “policy change”.
Just for the fun of pointing it out again to Your Greatness, rookies are now encouraged via the NPE to go out and shoot other players, kill ships and lose ships. And where better to do that than in their usual systems, and with other rookies.
Yes, indeed. Now, use that grey matter.
EvE Echoes comes to mind. They can play that game. Overhauling the existing EvE Online into another EvE Echoes would be extremely costly, and would take away the niche position that EvE Online currently enjoys. There is no room for two EvE Echoes.
This old head agrees with yours, TE.
Not too long after I started EVE, I lost my first Cruiser (Arbitrator 
), in Lowsec. The effort required to replace it seemed daunting at the time.
I went back to flying my (one) Destroyer, and stayed away from Lowsec. But I did something else, too. I searched the available resources for help in guarding against future losses, and mined and missioned my little heart out until I was in a position to Arbitrate yet again.
I was so proud of my replacement ship! I vowed not to let it be so easily taken from me again.
Not everyone is like me, of course, but the options open to me at the time were and are available to all new players, free, gratis, and for nothing. Surely, only arrogance, ignorance, and trepidity stand in their way.
The problem may not be that CCP think new players can’t recover from loss, but that the players themselves harbour this view, and that it inhibits their outlook, leading to early exit from the game.
I never once doubted that I could and would recover from my Lowsec loss, and of course, it worked!
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It bugs ya, doesn’t it 
You’re welcome. I like it when you post “1 = 1”, no context needed.
Also, saying that alts are alts, followed by some alts that you label as monkeys, is not context, just ballast. So you have “alts = alts > monkeys” ? Great. What happens if one of the alts puts up a market order ? Evolution in reverse, on its way back to being a monkey ? You may have a point. An idiotic one, but still a point.
I’m sure you’re “sure”. You’ve been “sure” for 230 posts in this thread alone, demonstrating how “sure” you are. But as usual, that confidence is based on conjecture.
Every time there is a choice you’re so darn quick to fill in the blanks, aren’t you. The NPE AIR track does NOT require it to be in a duel. It does NOT warn against ganking. It’s up to the player to decide. Up to now CCP has left the freedom of choice to the community. You on the other hand want strict rules, that’s your thing, because you lack imagination. As others and I have told you umpteen times before, your so-called protection of new players against a pvp ship loss is not a favor. If anything it postpones the inevitable. Because this game can’t be separated into a pve only part and a mixed part.
Oh…we’re back to the ‘thousands’ again, when Lucas already admitted that the majority of those thousands do not leave because of ganking.
And its odd that you want noobs to go to lowsec, which is even more dangerous, after an experience of Eve in highsec that would be a Disney theme park for carebears. Why would those very same noobs not leave on encountering their first gate camp…huh ?
Hi Jesse. Yeah, I noticed that many people would like to remove high sec combat all together.
You are more accurate than I was with my statement. You have summed up the situation. I think the heart of the issue is that EvE is an older game, and it does not have the cynical early easy success that is common in many new games. As someone who has played EvE on and off since 2004, I don’t think that EvE can compete with all the new MMOs that are PvE focused on EvE’s PvE game. The thing that EvE has is a player driven economy, complex crafting, and non-consensual PvP.
It is my intuition that players that get frustrated early with a loss of a ship from non consensual pvp, and walk away from EvE were likely going to get frustrated with EvE and walk away latter when either they face loss from PvP, or just from the boredom of EvE’s lack-luster PvE even if the player avoids PvP.
Removing non-consentual PvP from the early game just kicks the problem down the road for new players, and is a turn off for many of the veterans. But that is just my take on the situation.
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Yes Lucas, I should have added ‘lack of self-discipline’, but it didn’t occur to me. Thanks for the leg-up!
I am not assuming that players can’t learn, but I am assuming that most gamers in general just don’t like non consensual PvP, and these are the players that react to a suicide gank with cries of griefers! and quit the game. I do think that they would be frustrated and likely quit whether this happened to them in their venture, or latter in their game when they are in their retriever, or when they are in their blinged out golem.
I might be miss reading it here, but if they didn’t want the rimdark dystopic space game, they would stay in High Sec. And I think we will find a lot of people there. But we will find a lot of people that get bored with high sec and move out into that dark space looking for more, more than high sec could ever give them.
JJ
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Really ? That’s odd…as I don’t recall getting a single email or message or phone call or anything at all with ’ This is the developers…stop talking a load of twaddle ’ in it.
LoL. I find it stylish, in a form before function kinda sorta way
(I’m not going into the “everything vs everything” discussion you’d love to have. For me that’s equivalent to discussing the vocative of “ego” - although I do expect you to have an opinion on the vocative of ego)
High sec is equally grim dark, if not more, because all the empire peons are also genocidal corrupt cyberpunk Corpo style folks.
How else do pirate NPCs spawn in missions in high sec
And it isn’t because I despise ganking, I genuinely believe those players would do fine in low sec as a lot of them are good pilots, but the big reason is that it opens a new space in the game that has never been there before.
This can be true, but let me ask you a question. Since you have been off and on since 2004, how many times have you ran across a Eve player that gave the game a second shot, and found the right group of people to help them on the second round now they are successful in the game. I think this is the opportunity you create for all those base biomassed souls by having a gank free or close to it space to play in.
JJ
I can’t argue that but the intent of my statement was going from a civilized Empire, to the wild west of null.
JJ
What a load of baloney. Why would people be any more likely to move out into lowsec than they are now ? Why would noob miners enjoy a highsec riddled with hundreds of totally safe AFK Orcas that sweep the belts clean before they can even get a Venture load of ore ?
You keep saying ‘I think’…but it is clear that thinking is a process that has not occurred. You have not really thought about the consequences at all. Remove ganking and every Tom, Dick, and Harry is going to have 100 AFK Orcas in every belt in highsec. Remove ganking and nobody in highsec will bother learning about tanking of ships…they’ll be able to warp all the way from Jita to Amarr in a totally unshielded hauler. Nobody will bother fitting barges with tank.
No need to learn about d-scan, or scouting, or corp intel, or tank, or any of 1000 things that the risk of ganking forces people to learn. And you think this FARCE is gonna make people ready for lowsec ??
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I note your indication that you are crying with laughter. I hope that isn’t true, Lucas, for it would be a gross over-reaction and, as you will read, a trivialization of my point.
There are certain character traits which have proven to be less than useful in challenging circumstances of all kinds. Among those are the ones I have mentioned (and the one you added - Thank You!).
No-one exhibiting such traits is likely to improve, at EVE or in Life.
The fact that we (some of us) pay to access the product entitles us to no more than that. We may have an expectation that there will be some sort of entertainment provided, but CCP does not - as far as I’m aware - publish guarantees or any kind of commitment that a player will be entertained.
Examples:
Arrogance: ‘This game should be designed around my preferences!’
Ignorance: ‘I skipped the NPE, and I don’t read internet guides.’
Trepidity: ‘I’m fearful and reluctant to try new things.’
Self-Discipline: 'I do what I want, when I want; I’m Kool (but often bored).
Such a person will struggle with EVE, was my point.
Over to you…!
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If you’d actually engage with the universe and its lore, you’d know it’s silly to call the 4 empires “civilized” and everything else “not”.
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Let’s explain something here, for the benefit of new players who might one day read this. The “sandbox” aspect is NOT the freedom of choice to PRETEND that the game can be played either full PvE - in the sense of Massively Solo Online, in this case even on a single shard - or full PvP. It is simply full PvP in a “grim/dark/unforgiving/harsh/etcetcetc” universe.
There is no room for PvE only types of players, that’s not the game, never was. Even krabs and traders at least know how to actively avoid PvP, so they keep that pvp aspect with them at all times. The sandbox aspect is freedom to do what you want in any way you want. No levels, no stories, a strict minimum of rules but plenty of choices. With that comes taking responsibility for your choices. And remembering that other players have exactly the same freedom to play as they want within the rules and setting of the game.
In other words, we’re all stuck on the same shard, and we will bump into each other. Pew Pew and 'Splosions may/should result.
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