Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank

Altara do we live in alternate realities? We agree ganking isn’t everywhere, the people that want to mine today already mine. Yes we discussed there will be a few spectrum players, but as explained you don’t get more efficient, promise I have tried.

Ganking can’t take out fleets of Orcas anyhow, I want to call you names you are so out of the loop on the game. But I won’t so I shall suffer the rath of your ignorance.

This is also a myth Shipwreck Jones put in your head. There is no counterplay for ganking. Good gankers come, and minus a fumble once in a while, they succeed in a very high percentage.

You think so shallow you don’t see the big picture and I am sorry, but CCP does and as you can see and feel the change has to happen it needs to happen. I am not worried, there are thousands of system to PvP in all day long, go back to a safe high sec reship if you must.

Come to fan fest next year maybe drunk it will make more sense.


Comprehensive and cursory reading are almost mutually exclusive. A bit lower in my post:

Kelly, does that mean you’re not discussing the points, but the author ??? Naughty naughty !!! :rofl:

If I were to call that brick red spot behind you “brick red”, you’d deny it :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Next time check Local. Those other names you see are actually other people. Some of them might even try to gank you, :grin:

But on a more serious note, if CCP were to put up a new server with PvE only (small v, I love it) and assemble all those PvP averse over there, I would ab-so-lute-ly LOVE IT. It would fix the economy in an instant (no trading between EvE proper and EvE makebeliEvE, you see). They might crown you as King Kelly I, space royalty. And let them have their own forums too, and get this one fixed in the process free of charge. Isolation indeed. When they finally grow up, they can try the real game then.

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Really ? I am a ganker. Please lecture me on the subject.

Does the dictionary in your bizarre alternate universe have the word ‘Avoid’ in it ?

Ah, there are no mirrors in your alternate universe either.

Oh yes…would be nice to actually see a troll under a bridge or behind a rock…for a change.

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At least we’re making some kind of progress here…

I fully expect the “normal” server to survive long-term. There probably isn’t a single pvp’er in this game who doesn’t have a pve income one way or another (the loot fairy is not a nice entity), and plenty of them build their own ships too, and extras to put on the market.
A pve only server would kill itself economically, if it would even manage to retain any players due to the quality of the pve game itself.

As to the chinese experiment, it will be interesting to see if it would grow beyond the small size that EvE Online on Serenity always was. I would think it is more geared towards the expectations and mentality of the chinese customer, if it is to succeed. That doesn’t imply that it would be a success in a non-chinese environment. That is a very tough call for anyone.

PvE server is just that. PvE only. For the PvP averse.

Think of it, with today’s resource distribution there is no choice: one has to collect resources in <0.5 systems to make the majority of things. I don’t expect people to become “non-PvP averse” when they cross into LS or NS or W-space. I mean what would we be discussing if that were the case ? Convenience ? Max security ? Wouldn’t make any sense, if it weren’t hypocritical.

Regarding the new map on that chinese experiment, I really can’t see the purpose of it. Yes, perhaps it condenses conflict zones, or the chance to bump into one another, because not enough players joined the game. The game would have been served better by attracting more new accounts. And that’s the strange thing. What if the experiment works, and new players stream in. Would they expand the map again ?

It looks to me that the chinese publisher/developer (this was done outside of ccp) is simply addressing a situation of too few players on too big a game, with a stalemate in nullsec that has been happening for years (your reference to alliance sizes etc). Even that is a measure for nothing: one cannot avoid smaller alliances to join together under a coalition flag. Coalitions don’t even exist officially on TQ, there’s no such thing as logo, or a standing even. But I’m not familiar with the chinese gaming market, nor with their mentality and culture, to understand the fundamentals of their experiment.

Hello Lucas,

I am a little confused by this. I think you may be agreeing with me on my statements, but I am not quite sure(?)

As an old head I can remember loosing ships for silly things, and being attacked by pirates or trying to be suckered in can flippers. It was a pain to loose expensive ships, but I never felt like quitting the game over that.

The time I quit playing EvE it was out of boredom.

I think this is where you and I fundamentally disagree. EvE has lasted as long as it has because it is largely the last game that embraces non-consensual. If EvE tries to change to chase PvE players it is going to have to become a completely different game to succeed. While this transformation is happening it is going to chase off a large percentage of the players that are here because of the PvP. EvE has never been competitive with WoW, or FF. I doubt EvE is able to be competitive with the big PvE focused games.

Why dilute the area that EvE excels at to try to compete even a little bit in areas that EvE can’t compete in?

As I said earlier, I don’t see half a dozen new threads every time I log into the forms trying to “fix” the new player skill point problem. I am reacting to what I see. The narrative that high sec combat is “toxic” and only “toxic” players engage in it was what led me to make my post about it not being toxic to shoot people’s ships in a space ship shooting game. A discussion of selling skill points seems like topic drift here, so I won’t go into my feelings about it, but if you want to start a new thread on that topic Lucas I will post in it if I notice it.

Maybe, but maybe not. I notice that people are also quick to say how much they don’t like the nerf ideas. It is not likely that people go to forums to say how much they like the status quo and post threads saying “keep everything the same CCP!”

I guess we have different experiences then. Maybe it is that we hang out in different regions of space. Another thing that I have not heard people talk about is how much of this high sec miner ganking is economic, and not just mining salt. For example in and around Hek there is (or was) a group trying to set up a mining syndicate that would openly have miners who were not part of their syndicate be ganked. I think a lot of this ganking of miners is economic based.

As I noted above, I suspect that there is a lot more skullduggery behind the scenes in high sec, and high sec miners being ganked does often have economic causes.

It is nice that we agree on a little bit at least.

I guess this is another fundamental disagreement between us. I am for PvE and PvP players both being able to play the game, but I think that it is a mistake for PvE or PvP players to be totally safe. Please note that I say this as someone who is now largely a PvE player. EvE’s PvE game just can’t compete with other MMO’s PvE. The exciting moments in EvE for me always revolve around PvP, even when I am doing PvE content. Hauling and mining, are both tedious and boring after a short while of doing it, let alone over a decade of doing it. Even the missions become tedious and boring after running them for such a long time. Unless I am hauling faction modules around for sale, and I hear my ship get cargo scanned, and then I see tornadoes sitting on the next gate. That is fun. I only mine afk, I will admit. Even doing lvl 4 missions are things I really don’t need to pay close attention to, but if I local fills up with a fleet of catalysts under the tutelage of a particular space princess, now my lvl 4 mission becomes interesting.

I am not saying that removing non-consensual pvp in high sec is bad for PvP players, I am saying that it would be bad for PvE players.

No worries about your long post Lucas. This was a good one in my opinion.

Indeed. Just another element for the melting pot in a brain storm session, or a discussion, a true PvE server - no PvP for the PvP averse who want to play Massively Solo Online.

When the game was originally released, it was meant to be a game where “no place was completely safe” thats why high sec has CONCORD. A game mechanic to police “illegal” actions (i.e. ganking) but if the newest generation of players want to feel completely safe, than maybe it’s time for CCP to make high sec completely safe.

It may be that we find different parts of EvE interesting JJ.
It is hard for me to speak to why anyone else comes and goes in EvE, but for me, looking back, it was boredom. EvE’s PvE is just not the best, even compared to older games like EverQuest or Ultima Online. What has kept me engaged in EvE is the PvP, or even just the threat of PvP. If my first experiences with EvE were in a totally safe PvE environment, I would be bored silly within a week and go back to playing Project 1999.

I understand that there are people who rage quit EvE the first time that they are killed by unexpected PvP. But I think that player would have eventually quit the first time they were snuck up on and killed regardless how far you put off non consensual pvp. If these players can live in a 100% safe high sec forever I suspect that they would quit from boredom. I know I would.

it can only ever be a temporary postponement of the inevitable. As they say, every ship built is destined to die in a ball of flames. And the more one understands the static pve aspects, the “harder” it is to lose ships to npc’s. Which leads to the conclusion … Right.

But here’s a thing I brought up in the megathread, to which you never responded before the thread was closed: in the same spirit of the “new chinese New Eden map”, spreading rookies better across the four empires would already greatly reduce the risk of losing a ship due to pvp in the earliest stages - if such is indeed an issue, because I’m not prepared to take that statement at face value, ever, without data.

I wasn’t thinking about server loads, or resource density, but rather about the fact that available space size is not an independent variable if you look at the macro economy and balance of the game. If the level of destruction ramps up because of higher density of combat, it would be felt on the market, which would be felt by virtually everyone. Available space, player density, resource density, combat density, production levels, and probably a few more volatile ones like risk taking, wealth, are all variables that are interconnected and influence each other.

Yes, you’re panicking cause your reason for existence may shut down, so you are trying to save it right? LOL.

Here’s a novel idea. Games die. Everything does. I’d rather EVE die as it lived, rather than become some mindlessly PVE safe farming game that dies with a whimper.

Also, the game is near 20 years old. In reality, removing ganking will do nothing.

It isn’t ganking that’s driving people away.

You realize he doesn’t really play the game :smiley:

Good to know. So did you find it on the box yet or

Brosef, you tell on yourself all the time :smiley:

Huh. Maybe you don’t keep track of your words as good as you thought :smiley: You can’t even really remember where its from huh :smiley:

Actually EVE is inspired by UO as well :smiley: And that explains everything.


That’s a whole lotta words just to say I don’t got anything :smiley:

There are tons of things.

You’re just bad at the game :smiley:


Here is a proposal to balance ganking:

1.) Any Player Corp, Alliance can be wardecc’d

2.) War Hq now requires a service module that consumes Charters for where it is placed, lets start with 10k per hour for medium structures.

3.) Only 3 Wars can be active by a Player Corp or Alliance at any one time.

4.) a Player Corp or Alliance can only receive allied dec assistance 1/1 for each War Command Service module it owns.

5.) POCO’s now consume 1,000 charters per day for the empire they are placed in.

6.) It is no longer required to have a structure to be war decc’d

And there we finally have it. Your real motivation. Never mind saving noobs and all that, you are ( as you have even admitted elsewhere ) bored of your Eve and your 20 alts and the billions you sit on and want a fresh economy to start again.

It seems you’re worried about being left behind.

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Maybe miners and antigankers aren’t safe?

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That entirely depends on what you are actually doing in Eve. It’s a sandbox, with levels of complexity of hierarchy entirely decided by players. It can thus be as simple or as complex as people make it. I’ve seen videos of battles over wormholes involving complex strategy and planning, for example. Or there’s the guy who did the 16 month double-cross of a corporation, ultimately bringing down an entire nullsec bloc. At the top level, I suspect Eve is one of the most complex games in existence. Maybe the real problem is that so few aspire to that level.

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You sound defensive. What will you do when HS ganking is no longer a viable option?

Exactly. EVE is as complicated or as simple as you want to make it.

However, the engine that drives that is player agency and choice. Removing ganking seems like a small change but in reality, it is the beginning of stripping away that agency.

Once that starts to happen, it snowballs. And then you’re left with nothing but a theme park to run around in, which ultimately gets dull.

I dunno bro, you’re too afraid to post with your main. She’s already got you beat :smiley:


I only date people with at least 100 trillion ISK and a rich daddy with a Keepstar I can park my collection of pink blingy Paladins outside.

“A l’exemple de Saturne, la révolution dévore ses enfants” (Jacques Mallet du Pan)