Prototype BPC Inventions idea (Invention Process T2)

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
1

I’ve been thinking about the idea of a new Invention processes for Hulls that allows players to customize hull attributes, I thought sharing with the community.
The idea has been presented in the forums a few times already without much details on mechanics, or differentiating from T3 Hulls capabilities.

1st - Why?

The ship meta progresses slowly, while the game has a vast catalog of hulls only a few are competitive in at a point in time due to balancing mechanics.

Smaller groups have a slim chance under the current ship meta to propose a treat to larger groups in regards to fleet composition. Doctrines based on stock hulls become known quickly and countered easily by larger groups.

For larger groups it’ll continue to be more cost-effective to use standard hulls for doctrines and large deployments, smaller SIGs however will benefit from the expanded hull options for max enjoyment.

2nd - How?

Prototype BPC Invention Process

  • Input:
    • T1 BPC (non faction)
    • Datacores (new items)
    • Decryptors (existing items)
  • Output:
    • T1/T2 Prototype Blueprint

Requires new upwell station modules

  • Standup Invention Lab II: Module can’t be fitted in HS, requires an online registry office module within industrial jump range to be online. Pirate NPC corporations provide Lab & Registration services to capsuleers. Standard T1 invention process can be also run with this module.

  • Registry Office I: Module provides Private BPC Registration. Stations fitting the module can be hacked to retrieve registered specs (intel), at least one active module is needed per corporation, multiple can be active for redudancy or uninterrupted industry migration. Module can service any labs within Industrial Jump range.

BPC & Hull Registration Mechanics

  • Private Registration: To run an invention job to create a prototype BPC, it must be registered by an NPC or Player Corporation. Requires new station module - Registry. Players can access and load BPC presets registered per ACL.

  • Prototype Hull ID: The display name of the BPC & built Hull is a unique ID, hashed from the hull & datacore configuration, and the corporate registration name.

  • Public Registration: Prototype hull IDs involved in ‘1,000’ KMs are recognized by concord, the corporation that owns the private registration can publicly register the prototype in a concord station, to and set a unique named ID (moderated) and sell Hulls and BPCs on market. Multiple identical BPCs with diferent names can be registered and active at any point. Publicly registered BPCs can be generated by any player using the T1 Invention process, with an added % royalty defined by the corporation registration owner & SCC Tax (control sink), royalties are paid to said corportion. It requires a station with Standup Invention Lab I, and a registration office module active. NPC Pirate factions provides stations with these modules for capsuleers.

  • Registration payment: 1 Account Plex Monthly equivalent paid to concord.

  • Registration payment default: 1st: 7 day Notice, no new BPCs can be made, or Hulls built to the registered name with the T1 Invention process after notice. 2nd 30 Day Final Notice, BPCs and Hulls are no longer accepted in the market, existing market orders are cancelled. Existing hulls & BPC continue to be named until destruction. Defaulted registrations can be claimed by another player with a matching BPC in a concord station.

Invention T2 Mechanics

-A player docked in a station fitted with a Standup Invention Lab II and with ACL rights for an active corporate registration office, can configure, register and run a Prototype invention process. When loading a T1 Hull BPC into the invention process the player can select between the standard T2 outputs (Invention T1) or “custom BPC output” (invention T2) that allows for protype manufacturing datacores to be selected in their stacks, or a load a present from the Corporate Registry.

  • Datacore Stacks: Datacores are stacked to determine hull attributes and bonuses applied to the base hull. there are 2 stacks on a run, Hull and System Optimizations. Each stack can accomodate poins up to a total max. T1s are 1 point, T2 are 0.5 points. To load a T2 Datacore it must have a compatible T1 installed.

  • Datacores: The required datacores are T1 and T2 items with specific empire faction bonuses for hull (Hull Role & Attribute Modifiers) and system optimizations (Bonuses per lvl). Engineering skills are required to use each factional datacore type (30 new skills) and influence the ‘points’ assigned to each datacore. Datacores drop by running empire NPCs hacking sites in high, low and null sec that render negative empire standing.

  • Skill Books (30 new skills) drop by hacking NPC stations in high sec, successfull hacking sets suspect timer and unsuccessfull sets a criminal timer & player gets concorded. Skill Books should be expensive and difficult to collect, and a long training queue to master. Skills at lvl 1 allow players to use T1 datacores, at lvl V allows players to use T2 datacores to produce T2 variants.

  • Process Success Chance: Datacores have a chance multiplier for T1 (80%) and T2(60%). For each addional faction to the hull’s it applies a 0.5 multiplier.The datacore stack determines the chance of success. IE: Single Faction T1 (H(T1)S(T1)) → (0.800.80) → 0.64 chance, Cross Faction T1 (H(T1)S(T1)0.5) → (0.800.800.5) → 0.32 chance. Chances for elaborate T2 Stacks are reduced considerably to balance BPC creation costs.

  • Decryptors: Same functionality as T1 invention process, increase success chance & BPC quality

3rd - What does it bring to the game?

  • New Immersive playing experiences that present unique PVP opportunities are introduced by the datacore and skillbooks farming mechanics.
  • Opportunities for small wealthy groups to challenge large formations with customized doctrines.
  • Introduces a new ‘Industrialist’ Role → Prototype Engineering, since the entry requirements (skill books) will be exclusively limited, Pilots with these skills will be highly valuable.
  • Vast industrialist opportunities to produce profits with high value added

4rd - Datacores have all the magic?

That’s right, the mechanics is in the datacores to allow for a self-regulating meta, what can they actually do?
For example, for Frigate class hulls would have the following Hull Optimization Datacores for each faction (and a similar list for System Optimizations): each of the includes the factional bonuses that are applied to existing hulls (engineered balance framework)

  • T1 - Support Optimizations
  • T2 - Logistics Optimizations
  • T1 - Combat Optimizations
  • T2 - Assault Optimizations
  • T1 - Electronic Warfare Optimizations
  • T2 - Electronic Warfare Optimizations
  • T1 - Exploration Optimizations
  • T2 - Covert Ops Optimizations
  • T2 - Stealth Bomber Optimizations
  • T1 - Interceptor Optimizations
  • T2 - Interceptor Optimizations
  • T2 - Interdiction Optimizations

For example the first 2: T1 Support and T2 Logistic optimizations would look like this:

T1 - Support Optimizations

  • Minmatar:
    • Remote Shield Booster Falloff Bonus: 300%
  • Gallente:
    • Remote Armor Rep Optimal Range Bonus: 50%
    • Remote Armor Rep Falloff Bonus: 600%
  • Caldari
    • Remote Shield Booster Falloff Bonus: 300%
  • Amar
    • Remote Armor Rep Optimal Range Bonus: 50%
    • Remote Armor Rep Falloff Bonus: 600%

T2 - Logistics Optimizations:

  • Minmatar:
    • Structure HP Bonus 20.69%
    • Inertia Bonus -1.28%
    • Shield HP Bonus 12.50%
    • Shield EM Resistance Bonus 50%
    • Shield Thermal Resistance Bonus 20%
    • Armor HP Modifier 20.00%
    • Armor EM Resistance Modifier 20%
    • Armor Thermal Resistance Modifier 16.25%
    • Scan Resolution Bonus 1.62%
    • Maximun Targetting Distance Bonus 17.65%
    • Maximun Locked Targets Bonus 1
    • Ladar Sensor Strength Points Bonus 4
    • Warp Speed Bonus 10.00%
    • Medium Slots Bonus 1
    • CPU Bonus 5.26%
    • PWG Bonus 5.00%
    • Launcher hardpoints Bonus 2
    • Rig Slot Bonus -1
  • Gallente
    • Structure HP Bonus 26.87%
    • Inertia Bonus -1.33%
    • Shield HP Bonus 20.00%
    • Shield Kinetic Resistance Bonus 30%
    • Shield Thermal Resistance Bonus 20%
    • Armor HP Modifier 12.50%
    • Armor Kinetic Resistance Modifier 32.50%
    • Armor Thermal Resistance Modifier 16.50%
    • Scan Resolution Bonus 1.71%
    • Maximun Targetting Distance Bonus 13.16%
    • Maximun Locked Targets Bonus 1
    • Magnetometric Sensor Strength Points Bonus 3
    • Warp Speed Bonus 10.00%
    • Low Slots Bonus 1
    • CPU Bonus 6.90%
    • PWG Bonus 12.24%
    • Rig Slot Bonus -1
  • etc… (I built a spreadsheet of these stats from reverse-engineering in-game hull stats)

Examples

You made it this far! thanks, here are some example BPC stack:

Identical T1 logi (burst), A player with lvl 1 skills could create a prototype a BPC identical stats as an existing T1 hull:

INPUT:

  • HULL Stack
    • Burst Hull BPC
    • Datacore Minmatar T1 - Support Optimizations
  • SYSTEMS Stack:
    • Datacore Minmatar T1 - Logicstic Optimizations

OUTPUT:

  • PROTOTYPE BPC (Burst identical stats)

Or a T2 Logi Hull identical to the scalpel, requires skill lvl V
INPUT:

  • HULL Stack
    • Burst Hull BPC
    • Datacore Minmatar T1 - Support Optimizations
    • Datacore Minmatar T2 - Logistics Optimizations
  • SYSTEMS:
    • Datacore Minmatar T1 - Support Configuration
    • Datacore Minmatar T2 - Logistics Adaptations

OUTPUT:

  • PROTOTYPE BPC (Scalpel identical)

More interestingly, a player with skills lvl IV can build its own prototype interceptor, mixing hulls & bonuses:

INPUT:

  • HULL Stack

    • Rifter Hull BPC
    • Datacore Minmatar T1 - Interceptor Optimizations

  • SYSTEMS:

    • Datacore Minmatar T1 - Launcher Configuration
    • Datacore Amar - T1 - Combat Configuration

OUTPUT:

  • PROTOTYPE BPC (Custom Stats)

The stats would read out:

  • Stats:

    • Identical Rifter

  • Bonuses:

    • Minamatar Frigate Bonus (per lvl)
      • -5% Light Missile and Rocket rate of fire.
    • Amar Frigate Bonus (per lvl)
      • +4% All armor resistances.
    • Role Bonus
      • -80% Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost.

What do you think?

FAQ: (anticipated FAQ, nobody asked anything)

1 - Why is this different from T3 hulls?

T3 hulls have a different purpose, allowing a pilot to strategically reconfigure the ship for every engagement or situation. Prototype BPCs are less cost effective than a T3 cruiser for a dedicated purpose and do not allow the owner to change the configuration in a station.

2 - Why not just refit your stuff?
It is not enough to provide players with differentiating combat profiles, most hulls allow for optimal configurations that quickly become ‘s**t stacks’ or ‘blingy’ ships that do not provide an advantage in real combat.

3 - Will this not result in un-killable/OP combinations
Likely some combinations are overly well-performing against others in different scenarios, it’ll however be less cost effective than other standard solutions. the balance is in the cost of prototypes.

4 - Will it be unmaintenable from a dev point of view?
It’ll be much easier for CCP to balance the game by providing players with a framework to self-balance the meta, CCP can focus on creating new content instead of permanently tunning attributes to balance the existing ship meta.

2

Hard no from me if it introduced new datacores. The game is bloated with items and it should be possible to find datacores that are already in the game that fits the idea.

Imo there should also be a way to scan or otherwise get info on a ship in space to see its stats and how it may or may not be tuned.

But at the end of the day the idea will shift the meta it wont really solve the issues you raised as far as i can tell. But it still seems like if done well it could be fun?

3

I personally don’t think having a large inventory of items bloats the game, certainly drop rates should be low and availability of this items in market should be the same.

Adding new anti-cloak modules could be lots of fun for the game, however outside the scope of these mechanics.

I do think these invention mechanics would introduce a measurable approach towards player-regulated meta that can expand into further customizable hulls, or other items. (though abyssal rolling already provide this ability for modules)

4

This hread made me think of runewords in Diablo 2. You combine runes (Datacores) in a specific way and the item (Ship) got a specific stat bonus.

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This system has not been adapted to other games afaik despite being cool and kind of mysterious. Not a stretch for EVE online imo.

1 Like
5

NO ! will break the whole balance system !

and you will break the balance system for ALL ships !

let me tell you what would happen → big groups will modify their doctrines for your new stat ! all you do is buff a ship hull and everybody fly with the best option to modifie their ship !

larger groups dont care about cost-effective doctrines or not … if CCP will implement a ship wich costs only the hull 5b but its overpowered then large group will change their doctrines to the 5b ship !

you only creating a hole imbalance system ! lets say you can create 10 “new” ships out of your idea then eve will have 10x ships and they need to be balanced … its impossible to do this !

no need for such stupid module ! if you dont want to have a cloak then its up to you not to use it !

6

I don’t agree with your observations.

It will brake the current ship balance, and favor instead a player defined balance. But only across the tier of players that can afford the extra cost, not the entire player base as you’d never be able to manufacture that many sustainably. A prototype hull would be largely more expensive and unavailable than a factional or T2 standard hull.

Null sec blocs do care about cost efficiency and sustainability of defense and offense strategy.

It adds a new layer to the meta that is player regulated.

7

you can disagree as you want but does not change the fact, that your idea will break every game balance out there !

just take your example :

with this you have way more HP then other ships in your class means a cruiser will get the HP of a BC or even a BS if i see all this HP and Resistance Boni ! → result in breaking everything cause in 30 days everyone has find out whats now the best ship because it scales best and then it will be flown by everyone !

but HP and Resistance are not tzhe only thing you wanna bonus ! there are targeting boni wich will occure in way faster ship locktime → the fast lock ships maybe can now lock <0,9 sec and maybe break the way how alignement works !

i see also a CPU and PWG boni … so now you can fit way easier the big and fancy stuff on your ship wich atm are never would be able to do so … example ? maybe a vagabond with x-large shield boost + large cap bat + 100 mn AB + 450mm AC´s + medium neut ! this is not gonna happen atm but with your boni on the hull maybe it can work and will break the game ! and way to overpowered ship !

ship balance is a very unstable and fragile part of balancing ! if you change one thing you can break the whole meta but you wanna change all ships oO

just fly the ships you wanna fly but dont wanna make them overpowered !

no they dont ! they just fly cheap ships because atm they are way better then expensive ones !

question → did you ever saw a nightmare fleet ? or a machariel fleet ? or a rattlesnake fleet ?
all theese ships are with cheap fit about 1,5b or maybe little bit more ! they are very strong ships in massive fleets and still can get easy countered with way cheaper ships !

8

The table of modifiers in the example is calculated for frigates. Different values would apply per hull class. These are the differences between a burst and a scalpel. It’s actually CCP balance framework that I’m proposing to expose to players, the balance compromise is embedded in this modifiers, and the cost of production.

Of course I’ve seen Machariel and nightmare fleets, those are rather mainstream, barghest, etc… I’m not proposing to replace faction hulls, as they have modifiers that would not be possible to achieve with my proposal.

I’m proposing a tier above factional hulls.

Then you say null sec flies cheap because it’s better than expensive… Just make your mind. You can see cost-effectiveness it is a matter for all players.

9

and it doesnt care if its a frigate or a cruiser or a battlecruiser … you will absolutley break game balance for your own favour and the game cant handl YOUR balance !

they dont fly cheap ships cause they are cost efficient ! they fly it because they win fights ! if the ships would cost 5b and win every fight then they will only bring 5b ships because they win fights !

10

Your keep circling th same, if a 5B ship would win every fight then it would be more cost effective than it’s cheaper version isn’t it? That’s not how it works, there is always another fit, or counter mechanics that out balances the risk.

1 Like
11

Absolutely not. You think people are mad about the speed of balance changes now? Imagine how slow they’ll be when each ship has hundreds of combinations that need to be tested instead of one.

12

Yeah didn’t really consider that, with so many possible combinations and costly process it wouldn’t speed up meta evolution at all.

13

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