Can you elaborate why do you think so?
Because I think it is very bad content for various reasons. First it requires group play from new players in an environment where group play is generally punished and not supported with game mechanics. Second it promotes mining as the first thing new players should do. Third it shields players from the several aspects of the sandbox (it must to make it work) giving the illusion EvE is a different game than it is.
IMO, RW should have never hit TQ.
Sure, hereâs some quotes from the thread.
[Note no indication of the CONTENT being the problem, just the difficulties in finding people to do it with, which Iâll cede is a point, and one CCP tried to fix, but simply didnât have time to.]
[In response to my question if ISK/h was the main problem]
I will agree that right now, the Wardec mechanics make something like RW (and to a lesser extent FoBs) less attractive, as they require co-operation that is intended to be done within a corporation, but in doing so puts one at risk. That, however, is a seperate topic - and one I did another roundtable on, talking to the wardeccers themselves. Iâd appreciate it if we can keep discussions of Wardecs out of this thread though, as it inevitably leads to flame wars that I quite frankly donât want to have to deal with in what has been a very constructive and informative thread.
I actually would disagree there, as it allows you two options - You can mine or you can defend other miners. Itâs intended to not be prejudiced based on whether a new player is interested in mining or combat, not to encourage mining. However, without a solid way of building a group, this isnât the case.
Possibly.
Gonna give that a hard disagree. It just should have been given some iteration on things that were noted upon its release to the public. However, getting CCP to iterate on things is hard, as youâre probably well aware seeing as you follow a lot of what I post.
However if you look on the RW threads, one of the first thing that was said was: âIf you bring a combat ship, youâre dumb. Bring a mining ship to help complete sites faster and increase reward/time, just tank the NPCsâ.
There could be a few solutions for that:
But currently, even if rewards were good, people would run 100% mining ships (maybe with combat drones).
Agree, it boils down to the group organization aspect, a combat or logi pilot canât complete the site, there must be a miner first. So it centers around mining. Also itâs more about temporary teams like we have for Incursions (where the rewards make it worth to organize). Corps as a long term group building is not the right solution space here. The game does not support team building outside corps, which is a problem.
I donât think iterations would solve the mentioned issues. For temp group play to work you have to implement complete new game mechanics, also I doubt CCP would have upped the rewards to a level where group play is worthwile over solo play.
What Iâd be interested in is how many of the 30 you had last time are actually running these and the other new content, and how many in the thread are actively running them.
We noted and informed CCP of the problems with RW before it was released, the test server thread had lots of people telling them it would be DOA content unless they changed the contents of the LP store.
For them to say they are abandoning the feature without revisiting it smacks of them taking the huff because the players were proved right.
Well the novice ones (level 1) can be done only in a Venture and in the level 2 there is lots of webbing going on already.
I wanted to take my Endurance because she is endurance enough to deal some damage while mining.
Couldnât do the level 3 because you need to do a lot of level 2 to do level 3 but you cannot complete those in time by your lonesome, so I didnât bother.
I dont think they want to acknowledge that its because of the rewards mainly. There are some issues with the sites alone, they could be structured differently, but main culprit is the rewards. I think that rewards mainly are the thing that is discouraging people.
What is wrong with them? Instead of LP, you pay mainly ISK, huge amounts. Also the SKINs that you cant sell for profit. People would like to earn LP, then exchange it to stuff, and sell stuff on market for ISK.
And the store doesnt have faction mining crystals, doesnt have modules, doesnt have implants. It looks poor.
And I am very glad that you and your colleagues were so concerned. Frankly so was I when I first heard about Resource Wars, until Affinity gave us more details and I saw how short the sites were and how much moving was required.
Please keep up the fight to save the sandbox. 
I only hope your concerns over this upcoming mystery feature were given proper consideration and taken on board.
We did what we could - I canât even take major credit for it though, people like Judge and Aryth spearheaded this one, as I was indisposed last summit. Give them some love if you get a chance 
There was no attribute booster or skill injector reward, so I did something more ISK/hr.
Did not know this content was instanced. Prevents someone from being forced out of a site so those who are not bling fit have a chance and discourages ganking I guess.
Finding others who are of appropriate skill and character. No point doing a site where your ship is in the hands of some random logi and gets you killed.
Anyone with âxâ skill points or can fly âyâ ship type, maybe.
Incursions. No better than the old way.
I sometimes click on it by accident and instantly regret it. Most content in there isnât worth the loss in ISK/h over incursions and the increased risk of getting ganked flying a nice PvE ship.
How about a nice notification when I fly near an incursion that a fleet needs DPS, Logistics or another role that matches my skills?
If I only have 2 hours to play I want to feel like I did something with those 2 hours other than die horribly to a rubricâs cube in space.
Accepting missions remotely would be nice, feels like there is a lot of unnecessary travel time.
A lot of ships are just awful to run an incursion with because missiles have such poor application to small or fast moving targets. A blaster Rokh is preferred to a rattlesnake because of DPS application. Amor ships are penalised because of the need to trade off DPS vs EHP.
The AFK VNI is more well known, at least an incursion has some barriers to entry.
Other PvE options are less attractive due to the fact nice L4 PvE Golems get blown to pieces on a regular basis.
Nope, not at all. I am rather doing things I know than things I cannot do by myself.
Though burner missions are terrible and too expensive. I always skip those.
It is generally understood that a player with social connections has better longevity than those without. Getting new players to make those connections is a good thing.
I would agree that it can be easy to sabotage a group effort - if that it the sort of âpunishmentâ you are referring to.
I would normally agree to this sentiment, I have argued elsewhere that Industry should be gated behind basic ship operation for the NPE. However, there is a lot more to RW that just âlaser the space rocksâ. Managing time, capacitor, tank and propulsion are a key tasks necessary to complete the objective. These are valuable skills which extend beyond mining.
The âbig secretâ which only is explained in the recent CSM Summit; is that CCP intended this content as a mentoring of new players by the experienced. Firstly, it should have been released with this purpose clearly stated by CCP. I donât think it was. Because it is meant to be an extension of the NPE is a justification to the shielding aspect. It is also why the rewards are intentionally sub-par. The actual reward comes from the learning/teaching. Secondly - relying on altruism in Eve is an oxymoron. How many of us would do something for nothing? Just about everybody who looks at RW focuses on the rewards - which translates as âwhatâs in this for meâ.
Well, I did listen to the last roundtable. I have rather sad conclusions. Most of them are about group, social, pve content most of participants talked. It is impossible to create that kind of content in EvE. They would end like incursions today. It canât be too easy because it would be soloable and we donât need another incursions. If what people told about them at roundtable is true, they are not being run in LS and NS for obvious reasons and they inject huge amount of ISK to the market for HS only. Itâs a cancer to the economy. It should be risk vs reward. Nullsec players farm them in HS? They supposed to get the ISK from the place they living in. Itâs all upside down.
Why you want to push group activity to pve so hard? Just because you liked drifter hive? Promile of the promile players will ever see those things. Elitist incursions? Sotyos of FOBs? This RW joke? Itâs a content for small group of players not for the masses waiting to shake the stale state of pve. We have more important things to revamp that adding more of that. Like missions for example, there were few good ideas, some of which I posted on forums several times.
Last, anyone who think pve should be a stepping stone or teaching to pvp donât know what they talk about. This wonât happen, ever, even with burner mission. Rats are not humans. They are scripted to do what they suppose to do. They donât fail fit, shitty fly, etc. they are predictable, and they are not for that in the game. Most of pve activities are for ISK gathering. Stop asking for player like AI, shoot players instead.
Itâs not about making NPCâs act like human. In fact people still want pve to be less hostile and more predictable than pvp. Itâs about using mechanics tied to pvp rather than pve resulting in blurring or removing the, now sharp, line between those two. Itâs about people learning and getting used to fitting, flying and properly using ships with pvp fit, through pve. Even if itâs only at basic level.
Youâre talking about pvpâers financing their pvp through pve and thereâs a push button/receive reward activity for that - ratting. Pveâers run pve because they like pve, because pve is always within reach and dynamic or not, unlike pvp, is held within boundaries (no titan hotdrops in a lvl4 mission).
Things you donât understand we donât need pvp fit or even it would be suicide to fit in some cases because of the pve nature of the sites ( fit must mitigate incoming damage at the start of each rooms for example removing two slot for pvp modules would be suicide in shield tank hulls). What pver will learn by fitting scram and web on BS to do pve site?
Agree, I do pve because I like pve and what I earn is just an offspring of what I do.
I do of course understand that fitting a scram to a current lvl4 mission doesnât make much sense (at least in HS). Itâs inefficient and has no purpose.
But âŚ
If new pve would require omni tank, rats would scram yet you could shut them off using neuts or jamming it would be a whole new story.
Letâs say a mission would require you to combat scan a fleet of hostiles (no bookmark, no gates, theyâre somewhere within two jumps), engage and kill them, or just tank them and hold their boss scrammed till a backup provided by the agent comes in (or maybe rats would have backup incoming so you better hurry). Wouldnât that be interesting? Wouldnât that narrow the gap between pvp and pve?
Why do you presume players want that gap narrowing?
No thanks, I donât want my pve to become more and more a pain in the arseâŚ
If I want harder pve Iâll go run Sanctums in Null, in HS I just want to chill like most players.
when do talking about new pve became âswitch it to the pvpâ? Why do you all thinks pvers are so miserable that you need them to saw what the ârealâ face of the game is and switch to your gameplay style? If pvers want to do pvp they would pvp. We donât need to fil the gap between two playstyles, itâs too late to do that. Pve god mode is from the very begining of the EvE, switching it to the burners direction wonât go well. Not to mention omni tanking pve ships would butcher whole pirate faction background (one tengu to do them all).
No, itâs overcomplicated. I donât mind to use warp disruption modules in some missions, I even proposed that in âhuntâ type missions but you mixing so many play styles (exploration, missioning, combat scanning). RW seems fun too, in theory, but for whom is that content? Why vets should teach anybody how to mine? Go to NS, get a fit for barge, undock and mine, itâs that simple.