How if they not on anymore GRID?
Keep up with the discussion and don´t stomp into the middle… of something.
Make me prood of concept video how you tackle tuskers with this setup without dying.
You know how much Tank a 500mn Lach has?
18k … if you do it like this.. Woah… i am amazed.
No you take what 3K dps against it and pop.
Plus you need to take care of the Keres which damps you down to 20km Lock range.
We’ve not had a coherent answer as to why you just suggested this
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Let me look this up for you:
what on gods green earth are these fits, are you being serious right now, why are you fitting CCCs in the rigs, and why are you using raw hp readout
10km/s with links, fits without implants, 56k ehp with heat and links, with a scram and a point so its can do its job, a single basi is needed to keep it alive
I think im now seeing the reason why you are having such difficulty with even basic ESS problem solving, you don’t even seem to grasp that there are toolsets that do the job
the 500mn Lach is one of the perfect counters for ESS stuff, its the first thing frat bring when you fight there
**
Jeah, make a Video as proof of concept how they not warping off if you pull this off.
I am waiting.**
I’m not arguing that booshes, combat probes, Lachesis, bubbles, or gate control are useless. I’m arguing that you’re treating a theoretical sequence of tools as if it solves the actual problem.
Your chain is basically:
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Boosh them.
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Get them on grid.
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Tackle them.
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If they leave, combat-probe them.
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Push them toward a gate.
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Bubble the gate.
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Eventually catch them.
But every step after “they are on the ESS grid” assumes they cooperate with the next step.
If they leave grid, the 500MN Lachesis doesn’t magically tackle them.
f they’re moving at several km/s, combat probing isn’t the same thing as instantly landing tackle on them. And if your solution is to repeatedly chase them between pings, gates and safespots until they eventually make a mistake, then you’ve demonstrated a way to harass them—not a reliable way to catch them.
And that’s exactly my point about the ESS.
The question isn’t “can you theoretically do something about them?” Of course you can.
The question is whether the ESS grid gives the defender a practical way to force an engagement against a highly mobile gang that doesn’t want to take one.
If your answer is “just keep chasing them until they screw up,” then that’s not really solving the ESS problem. That’s just accepting that the defender has to play an extended game of cat and mouse while the roaming gang can leave whenever the engagement becomes unfavorable.
So if you think my argument is incoherent, answer the specific point:
What mechanic on the ESS grid actually prevents a sufficiently fast gang from disengaging once the initial boosh/tackle attempt fails?
- Not “you can combat probe them.”
- Not “you can push them toward a gate.”
- Not “you can bubble the gate.”
What specifically prevents them from simply leaving the engagement?
My chain of events is what Tuskers go through in every other area of space, except yours it seems
yours is
- See people on ESS
- Send people there not equipped for the job and without a plan
- Get upset that they can control the fight
- Make a thread onthe forums
please actually go and use the tools available to you first, you have made a new thread on the forums at least once a month this entire year, all of them complaining that the sky is falling over what is essentially a solved problem most of the time
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What mechanic on the ESS grid actually prevents a sufficiently fast gang from disengaging once the initial boosh/tackle attempt fails?
What specifically prevents them from simply leaving the engagement?
the 500mn Lach pointing them down and the booshers getting the lach in range
the moment the lach is in range they literally cannot leave and they literally cannot disengage, thier only option is to leave before the lach gets in lock range
this is 100% a user issue on your part, goons have solved this issue, init have solved this issue, frat have solved this issue
They warp off. We already were on this point.
And than we come back to
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Boosh them.
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Get them on grid.
-
Tackle them.
-
If they leave, combat-probe them.
-
Push them toward a gate.
-
Bubble the gate.
-
Eventually catch them.
Show me a Video as proof of concept where they not simple warping of from Goons, FRAT or Init.
Where it is not a flying mistake.
I am waiting.
Sorry you specifically said this thead was only talking about the ESS grid, are you now moving the goal posts again?
once they are off the ESS grid you can simply continue to chase them down until they die or until you personally run out of patience, as it is with almost all hunting
I’m not going to go out of my way to prove something that is common knowledge, especially to someone who has been repeatedly shown to ignore literally any evidence presented to him, and especially considering the lachesis fits you linked when you thought it wasnt possible shows that you arn’t willing to put effort into finding solutions that exist
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I’m not moving the goalposts. I’m actually bringing it back to the point.
The ESS grid is the constraint we’re discussing. Your argument was that the boosh + 500MN Lachesis solves the problem on the ESS grid.
Now you’re saying:
“Once they’re off the ESS grid, just chase them until they die or you run out of patience.”
That’s a completely different proposition.
If they have successfully disengaged from the ESS grid, then the ESS grid has already failed to force the engagement you’re claiming it creates. Everything after that is ordinary roaming/hunting gameplay.
And “you can chase them until they die” isn’t really a counterargument. In principle you can chase almost any ship in EVE until it dies. The relevant question is whether the mechanics give you a reliable way to force that engagement rather than merely giving you another opportunity to hunt them afterward.
So let’s keep the claims separate:
Claim A: Boosh + 500MN Lachesis can catch them if the Lachesis gets into point range.
Sure.
Claim B: Therefore a fast gang cannot effectively disengage from the ESS grid.
That’s the part you still haven’t established.
If they leave the ESS grid before the Lachesis establishes point, then your proposed ESS solution has not caught them. Saying “now chase them” just changes the activity from defending the ESS to hunting a roaming gang.
That’s not moving the goalposts. That’s literally distinguishing catching them on the ESS grid from hunting them after they’ve left it.
So this is gonna be a wild concept that you may not know
Warp disruptors and warp scramblers, prevent people from warping away
the lachesis has very long range versions of these modules
The only counter that the fast gang has against a lachesis is to leave the grid before it catches up, unless the lachesis pilot makes some godawful mistake
once they have left the grid, they cannot return (unless you arnt defending it properly and simply let them return)
nano gangs are precision tools that are defeated by patience and similar tools
You bosh.. they warp off
And we back to the beginning.
Wanna start again?
if you keep going like that i will not respond or answer anymore questions.
I havnt asked you any questions (except i guess when i asked what on earth that fit was, and if you were moving the goalposts, which you have), I have responded to your incorrect claims and corrected what would have otherwise been an extremely joked about killmail of a lachesis
If they warp off, you have essentially guaranteed that they are going to die to you, unless you personally decide to throw in the towel and not hunt them down, the fight shifts from them being in control to you being in control
hope this helps, please use the lachesis and booshes the next time they come, you will do far better
Kane
Please go in our small gang channel, look at all the kill mails ive collected from these nano ess types that are the subject of this conversation and try to understand the points people are making are viable
Yes your point could be true if people were obstensibly stubborn, but the reality is they are not and you can catch most of the groups that dont immediately run the moment we put a group together.
Sigh
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Let me sum it up again since this gets very long and people try to drift the core away into their own bubble.
I know and i posted a Screenshot where we covered both gates and they shutteld Filaments in to get the people out since both gates were covered and they already moved 1000km from the gate away.
This Topic is about which the Outside of the ESS is useless unmarked Deadspace grid which doesn´t make any sense.
And i get troll post how you can use existing game mechanics to catch these people.
But this here is to remove the Deadspace Grid of the ESS and not how you can catch people on this.
**You can still warp from Safe to Safe and run down your timer and than Filament, which also for this i have open up a thread as it is currently unfair TO EASY mechanic.
**
I just want that people which abuse the ESS as running down their Timers to put a little bit more effort into this than running max. Linked with Speed into just one direction.
Back in the days we run rolling pings or we warped to multiple safe spots in line…
And if this isn´t possible there is an alternative approach to give us the option with a SOV Upgrade or Mobile Deplorable to make it harder to extract:
I also have a thread open to mark Deadspace grid like Zarza with an icon.
As for a lot of new players it is not visible how this Grid works and it is not explained in the game.
If they want to have FAIR PVP they con go to Faction Warfare and run Complexes which only allowes certain type of Ships to enter…
There are multiple Threads open to bring back the Arena
ESS is a Nullsec thing to create content about the money inside the ESS… why does the Outside need to be a deadspace GRID when the inside contains the Money, the bubble and the Afterburner Rule…
Yes, you can bubble it to prevent people to enter it… and this for example i am not touching at all.
You still would need to be in activation range of the Gate.
^^ And this core sentence here is still unbroken and nobody could break this with a good argument.
The solution to what youre talking about is make the filament mechanics more punitive so that when people leave the ess to extract they are more catchable
If a system is big and someone has made lots of safes it can be tricky to get them
Ultimately people 1000km off the ESS are no harm to anyone so you can just ignore.
I remember we chained 5 booshes to catch zigam once. He let us do it just to see if we could (we could)
But if it was a real scenario, because multiple booshes in the same tic dont work, chaining that many booshes to catch someone would give them time to warp off… which does give you a chance to catch them, if you have the probing skills or can setup a catch bubble on ess before they return
I suppose the game isnt supposed to be easy but that is what makes catching things enjoyable
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I agree, El Profii.
Nerfs to filament spool-up timers would be a good way to allow players to do their kiting on the ESS grid without also allowing them to simply teleport out of system once they’ve waited their 15 minutes.
To counter this situation FCCP added spool-up timers, and last March the spool-up timers were even increased to make it possible to catch people filamenting out:
Patch note link
… the only problem is that for some reason only the filaments within Pochven were increased, while the filaments outside Pochven were decreased!
The reason apparently is that filaments that allow groups to teleport away from chasing groups are acting as a barrier to content.
I would say the opposite is true.
Those 15 or 30 seconds make almost no difference when you filament while the system is clear, but make a world of difference with combat probes on your tail. And content is what happens when ships collide in a fight, not when a group teleports out of a fight before people could chase.
All FCCP has to do is to align filament spool-up times outside Pochven with those within Pochven and the main problem here is gone.
If you leave what do they do? They here to do PVP not to watch the ESS animation from far.