PVP Training Mode in-game?

[Io_Koval]

TL;DR: Training simulator idea joins the long line of excuses for why people don’t want to PvP, masquerading as a “think of the newbies” idea.

@nobleduck

The fundamentals are lacking among new PVP players and the lack of an accessible way to practice these fundamentals severely stifles the development among many, if not the majority, of Eve players trying out PVP. And they just end up quitting PVP.

In my experience (which includes mentoring rookies), the reason why people don’t PvP is because they have a mental block.

“I need to make more ISK, then I will PvP” is the big one. The next big one is various flavors of “I would PvP, but if only X”. Fill in X for whatever you want, in this thread’s case a “PvP Training Mode”. The last of the notable ones is the “fear of unknown”, some people are simply too scared of the “what ifs” and so don’t try. Of the minor excuses, the top one is “I can’t compete / I’ll lose my ship” which is just a stupid mentality to have: people don’t log onto chess dot com and expect to become 2200 grandmaster ELO and never lose a game, so why do they think Farmville / everyone-wins / youre-the-whole-hero-of-the-MMOs-realm-like-every-other-player exceptionalism attitude applies here.

The only way to get the person to PvP is to get them to change their attitude, motivation, and morale to overcome excuses for “why not now”.

Eve’s combat does have an execution/mechanical element to it. But for rookies specifically, it is almost guaranteed to be completely poor due to the adrenaline rush / combat shakes. No training simulator will get rid of it. And no amount of practice will get rid of it. The best way a rookie can increase their mechanical execution is to go out, get in fights, experience real combat shakes, freeze/get tunnel vision/perform poorly because of it, and then try and try again.

A training simulator also does not help with more important aspects of combat that involve hunting, D-Scanning, assessing threats, scouting, trying not to spook prey, identify when you’re being baited, and so on. People that have the attitude and willingness to do these things, but are missing the mechanical execution, are not the kind of people going “Oh if only there was a training simulator, then I’d pounce on this prey I’ve combat scanned and assessed isn’t bait”.

Each person is unique in how they learn. Training simulator is a tool. Tranquility is a tool. The training simulator brings nothing new to the table, except to assuage the mindset of someone already looking for excuses. First thing that person needs is a friend to tell them to get over it – but a lot of people in games these days don’t seem to have the kind of deep friendships that permit this tough uplifting.

[Gerard_Amatin]

Yep, the best way to get good at PvP is to just go out there and do it.

… I still have to get over that step for myself with regards to 1v1 PvP, so I realise there’s a hurdle.

But not everyone who wants to test game mechanics wants to do that through PvP. Sometimes you just want to know how a mechanic works so you can exploit that knowledge, possibly in a PvP fight but that’s of secondary importance.

Because of that, I completely get the request for a training mode.

I once wanted to understand the challenges of a bomber catching an explorer, to see how I could maje a better explorer fit but also how I could catch an explorer.

Instead of going out in space in either fit and having maybe one encounter a week in an uncontrolled environment where I don’t know the fit the other player used, a training mode would be much better to quickly test prop types used, amounts of webs needed and things like that.

Instead of asking for a training mode I asked around in my corporation and found a new explorer who wouldn’t mind some practice, warped us both to a random POCO and they tried to burn and warp off any time I decloaked to catch them. Was fun and useful.

[nobleduck]

Good job completely missing the point and getting tilted over a suggestion. You must be fun around parties.

[nobleduck]

Here’s the thing. All I do in Eve is PVP. I seek it and have no qualms losing ships. And furthermore, I WANT to get better. And I think a training mode would make for an excellent tool to get better in tandem with actual PVP experience.

It’s not a complete solution to get better at PVP. Nor does it provide something new that you can’t achieve with a corpmate. But what it does offer is a convenient and accessible way to grind the fundamental mechanical skills to get better.

Seems like I’m in the minority on this, but it’s clear to me that providing an accessible way to get better on these mechanical aspects of PVP will only build confidence in those new to PVP and want to get into the action as much as possible. I know it will with me.

[nobleduck]

That is indeed a great side bonus!

[Io_Koval]

@nobleduck

But what it does offer is a convenient and accessible way to grind the fundamental mechanical skills to get better.

People do this today by being hyper aggressive in heavily populated areas of lowsec. Their existence in Tranquility helps make the universe feel alive, populated, and dangerous.

Your proposal of a training simulator removes those peoples’ presence from Tranquility into playing alone in a room where no one else can see them, which is an active harm against the single sharded shared universe principle.

It was the exact same problem with Sisi. So much so that CCP closed it.

[nobleduck]

@Io_Koval

Your proposal of a training simulator removes those peoples’ presence from Tranquility into playing alone in a room where no one else can see them, which is an active harm against the single sharded shared universe principle.

It was the exact same problem with Sisi. So much so that CCP closed it.

Didn’t know that was the reason why CCP closed it. Fair point then.

For me it’ll just incentivize to participate more in PVP in TQ and test out the new skills I honed in the training mode. But perhaps CCP has the data that says this wouldn’t be the case in the aggregate.

[Andlaust]

@nobleduck

Good job completely missing the point and getting tilted over a suggestion. You must be fun around parties.

Whatever helps you compensate, buddy. I get your point that you’re bad at EvE. I get you need CCP to code you a crutch because you can’t get any better on your own. I also get that you are apparently such a toxic person that you can’t get anyone to help you get better in the game. I get all that, I really do. The only one that doesn’t seem to get that, and is getting tilted because they’re not getting unanimous, overwhelming support for their bad idea, is you.

[Syzygium]

@nobleduck

Didn’t know that was the reason why CCP closed it. Fair point then.

It wasn’t. Activity on SiSi never was high enough to have any impact on TQ. People just ‘tested’ any new PvE stuff like Abyssals without risk or Investment until they had failsafe Fits to use on TQ. Or shot other Players Citadels to look what would drop…

[nobleduck]

What’s going on buddy? I thought you were “DoNe”.

And here you are manufacturing some false narrative to strawman your way into an ad hominem… And don’t get me started on your overuse of .

Quite pathetic.

[nobleduck]

It wasn’t. Activity on SiSi never was high enough to have any impact on TQ.

Oh. People are dropping misinformation on the Eve Forums. I shouldn’t be surprised.

@Syzygium

Or shot other Players Citadels to look what would drop…

You gotta appreciate the creativity of Eve players.

[Io_Koval]

@nobleduck

Oh. People are dropping misinformation on the Eve Forums. I shouldn’t be surprised.

Other guy is the one spreading misinformation. They disabled Sisi right before dropping Lancer Dreads specifically because they wanted people to test their PvP functionality on Tranquility and not practice manually aiming and timing the lancers on Sisi.

There was a fair amount of contemporaneous complaining from people that didn’t feel it fair that they couldn’t figure out the mechanics to protect their jump freighters in peace on Sisi and had to risk it on TQ.