100% But hey it’s “content” so who cares right?
Truer words were never spoken. It seems that CCP won’t be happy until this game is one big PvP zone. With this current chapter of the Trig invasion, HS can become LS, but i don’t recall anything about LS becoming HS
I really have no idea about percentages, you could be right, or not.
It just feels like a lazy, inefficient (and we’ll have to see, probably ineffective) fix. However, the questions I have now are:
- why is it called structure spam, why are many structures any kind of an issue ? Did they cause the node in the KVN keepstar fight to simply give up, don’t think so.
- why is it that Upwell structures are more common than the old POS towers ever were ? (benefits like flexibility of services probably, and freedom to pick an anchoring location anywhere on a system map)
- does this generous deployment throughout New Eden point at a design error in Upwell structure properties as such, a design error not present in the old POS tower design ? (one that will not be fixed by a quantum core requirement either, imo)
- alternatives for hisec ? maybe a reduction of hisec Upwell benefits (slots, services, possible (number of) anchoring positions such as requirement of a nearby celestial, etc), aka you’d better have a very solid reason to put one up and be ready to knock another one down first if need be.
Any decent, balanced corp should be sufficiently ballsy to put one up in lowsec instead, again only my personal opinion for what it’s worth.
Then I guess you’ll have to figure out how to defend them yourself.
Well that’s the crux, isn’t it? The part no one is really talking about is, will this change accomplish the only goal CCP is trying to accomplish? Will it prevent structure spam as a combat tactic? You think yes, I think I have no idea, but what I really want to see are answers/discussions from alliance FCs/indy/logistics pepole who actually have to deal with this ■■■■.
Because the thing is, if this mechanic WILL accomplish CCP’s singular goal, then there are some easy ways to avoid the collateral damage people are complaining about.
One simple fix is to have the single structure core immediately turn into (sticking with the quantum theme) a red core, a blue core, and a green core. These would have 100% drop rates and high NPC buy-back values. Every 7 (or whatever) days, one of these cores should “decohere”. A decohered core has 0% drop rate and no NPC value. After 21 (tuning required) days, a structure placed with “good intention” has no more chance at dropping loot than one does now. This pretty much solves the long-term problem many people are talking about here without invalidating the short-term mechanic that CCP wants to use to prevent structure spam.
In fact, even better, because this change forces you to acquire a new, single, pristine quantum core from an NPC for every new structure. You cannot reuse existing cores you’ve stockpiled from previous bashes, etc., since immediately upon installation they’d turn into the red/blue/green variants that cannot be used to bootstrap a new structure. It also separates the sell and buy NPC orders into separate items which makes market tuning a bit simpler (also adds some fun scam opportunities).
But again this all hinges on whether the affected alliance-level folk believe the original mechanic as proposed will accomplish the goal of reducing tactical structure-spam. If it doesn’t, then NONE of the collateral damage discussed in this thread matters because that is CCP’s singular goal with this change proposal anyway.
OK, crunched through 600 replies. Thanks for the feedback everyone.
Key takeaways and clarifications
Player made Quantum Cores do not have the desired effect as they will be industrialized and built on site with no added logistics risk. Nullsec alliances will now have to distribute Quantum Cores across space from the NPC station where they bought them. A new risk for them.
More destruction of Citadels will mean more demand for industrialists
The Quantum Cores are bought and sold at the “same” price, so as to not create an arbitrage. If you find a Quantum Core floting in space, its guaranteed ISK, not subject to market prices. Like blue loot.
We made changes to Wardecs fairly recently, and if Highsec wardeccing becomes oppressive, based on data, not anecdotes, we would certainly want to act
That said, any corporation that owns a structure today can be wardeced because we don’t want structure owners to be safe. You can’t be safe in New Eden. Don’t forget, there are losses on the Attackers side as well, and they also need an HQ to maintain their wardecs so that becomes a new risk for them as well.
We are giving players choices, do you fortify with structures that will fall into enemy hands at a cost to you and a benefit to them, or do you forego tethering/ship repairs&fitting because that was not your intent and purpose of the structure
Forgetting Keepstars in <C5s was an oversight by CCP, and sadly missed through all the validation efforts, including extensive reviews with the CSM. We will adjust the masses and update when ready.
Existing structures that are not injected with Quantum Cores do not become hyper vulnerable trash. They lose 3 of the “basic services”, i.e. tethering, ship&module repairs and ship fitting. All Service Module and Reinforcement timer behaviour remains as before.
Realistically, any structure that has been in a full power state for a period of time (say 6 month or longer) should get one automatically installed for free. Having a forced bounty on your station is still not fair, but it is less of a slap in the face.
Hurrrayy ! Let’s make rich more rich… and poor ones more poor ! Make it as much difficult as possible for them to get on their feet’s… and smash small snakes head Because it’s easier when they were well small… what do you expect from a CSM full of null sec respresantatives… goood job !
It’s part of capitalism… small markets must die so big chains feed on better… … also personally I find some small corps pathetic who trying to drop some citadels like bunnies everywhere… it’s environmental disaster trash … also they SHOULDNT have identity or belongings so much… they have to be part of alliance and get into hive mind… small Indy is baaaad tooo baaaad … they have no right to be independent in EvE if they can’t defend their structures against big alliances.
. oh also CCP needs money… so please cotton hands into pockets… sink moar!
Far edit : WE WANT EVE ONLINE CLASSIC
2012 please … with improved graphics
Then remove the damage cap. It’s an annoyance at best and at worst, it puts people off sitting around for no reason other then CCP thought it was a good idea.
One corp destroyed our Raitarus simply because they had T2 rigs to salvage.
We know this, since we talked to them (well, our ‘diplomat’), and they found us to be agreeable, so they left one standing (the one without T2 rigs) and cancelled the war.
Now there will be even more incentive to bash structures than just salvage.
What losses for attackers in a highly assymetric war of 40 vs 10? Or 160 vs 90?
You realize that large alliances are just going to form citadel cleanup gangs and systematically reinforce nearly every single structure pinata.
And a large portion of those structures are going to die - and die without getting rebuilt - because they are owned by small corps and they are not going to keep getting replaced (read: fed) and “lead to increased industrial production.” LOL
Just as nobody EVEN TRIES to anchor a market hub in NPC null or lowsec these days bc it has a life expectancy of a month. Most small sized alliances who have poor means of defending are simply not going to be permitted to have any structures.
Healthy amount of ships and modules in circulation is achieved by its constant destruction. Structures are too difficult to destroy to the point of “tanking by irrelevance”: they could be destroyed potentially but it was extremely unlikely to lose one. So the structures just kept piling up.
Therefore it stands to reason to put something valuable in each structure so it now worth taking the effort to try and blow it up. Though it cannot be simply a bounty payout like rat anoms because it will result in greater amount of ISK inflation.
Direct result of lack of destruction stated above combined with too much security, convenience, affordability, and flexibility.
POSes were much less secure and more easily destroyed with limited functionality, cargo space, etc. They worked as a lightly fortified base of operations not impenetrable bulwark for the cost of a few hundred million isk.
Though as I see it Upwell structures are better when designed as a large vanity project for corporations to work on (and as a nice bonus to extract some profit if clever or lucky)
The largest structures, the ones that are 10% the price, are structures that are generally not spammed and are also already enticing targets, so there’s less of a need to incentivize their destruction.
You mean, get jump freighter in NPC station and jump to cyno? Very risky…
If citadel spam don’t generate enough demand. Destruction will never do (learn your own game please).
No ISK sink. Nice.
Wardec is not a issue. If you don’t want wardec you simply create holding corp. Issue is that every small group and single players (where are small strictures???) has zero chances when someone want to kick their castle for guaranteed loot. With this change, if you aren’t part of big group you simply can’t own any structure anywhere.
Love how Safezoners all over the place are in rage again.
Ill just go back to using the old POS at least you have none of the bull crap that comes with it
Null sec is in War… they have to feed on …feed on other players contributions… They dont need to buy these cores even… all they need to do is… farm them from structures in high sec with their big fire power… there is no small indy corp can stand in front of it… New Eden is not safe place yes… its Big Aliances feeding ground … their game play is hailed. respected and supported…CSM done well . Weak has deserve no respect in eve… they must be scattered and join the stonger ones. Thats also cost many small unique corp cultures destroyed and ASSIMILATED by big ones… if they refuse they can leave the game… that doesnt matter… Lot of new players running into eve online atm … As long as CCP can achieve to hold those new players… they are bigger source of money than old and self sufficient eve players…
This all about Power ! and there is no good intention for the behalf of community in this thing
Hey, some of us wanted to ninja salvage it! :::high fives concord:::
Nah, seriously though… someone in a NPSI anti-trig fleet I was in the other day accidentally locked and shot one of my wrecks and got concorded, that was… silly and picard facepalmy but… predictable.
I’ve seen at least three nightmares who were cap chaining in incursions get concorded due to shooting their cap buddies over the past 5 years I’ve been incursioning off and on, so… this one was at least a BIT different! ;D
More destruction means more destruction, period.
People won’t get another one when their structure is destroyed in a war they had no way to win.
You are just giving free money to bashers. That’s ALL you are doing, not increasing the use of structures. So no, there won’t be MORE need for structures, on the opposite you are nerfing them to the point only people with enough money to wast or people in them (big corps with F1 monkeys who don’t value their game time or 10s of accounts) will be able to put them.
The ONLY way to defend a structure is to make it not worth shooting it(scorched earth). Learn your own game. If the attackers gain more than they spend for the time bashing, doing another activity, then it’s not worth attacking the structure. And now you are forcing people to put loot in the structures.
You are killing your own game with mechanism that only support the bigger ones. “join a mega corp or get ■■■■■■” is what this patch is about.