Questions about null life as a "care bear"

[Roth_Amschel]

Oops I guess my noob is showing lol. Didn’t know about the destroyers as well So much to learn thanks for that. Logi sounds like a good place to start too if it’s a little less skill intensive. Tho in past games the “healer” usually gets stuck with the blame when things go bad lol. Hopefully not so much in this game. But I guess you can’t beat better marketing than saving other people’s behinds! Haha

[Alaric_Faelen]

Logi is also a good choice, although even more skill intensive than Interdictors. You’ll be needing a bunch more skills at V to be flying logi than for a Dictor.

I assume industrial pilots want to spend as little time training ‘combat’ ships as possible so they can concentrate on industrial skills/ships.

Dictor piloting is indeed a much more involved fleet role. However it’s far more interesting and you’ll be a better pilot for it. Don’t worry about screwing up- we have new Dictor pilots all the time and it’s pretty rare a fight is won or lost because of our Dictors. Most of the time bubbling your own fleet in a mild annoyance rather than a death sentence. It happens.
As a Dictor pilot, you will die. Alot. Not as bad as it used to be, Dictors are viable combat ships these days. But you will die, and get podded in your own bubble. But you’re an immortal space god, so that hardly matters. Especially when your entire fleet hails you as a hero for that epic tackle.

Logi is good too. You can often get SRP over 100% for logi ships (literally profit from your death). GSF has training fleets for every fleet role, so whatever you like to do, we can show you how.

As for participation in PvP- My corp asks for five ‘paps’ (participation tracker) a month. I pretty much only PvP, so I do that in the first two or three days of the month. But several guys in my corp are miners first and foremost. Each corp is like that. It’s a spectrum of content- we don’t have a ‘mining corp’ in the alliance, we don’t have an ‘incursion corp’. Each corp is cross-section of the Eve player base. We come together cross-corp to do content.
Within GSF we also have many sub-groups. Most of these are based around content like an Incursion group, or Blops hotdroppers. Others are community based- we have groups for everything from weight lifting to an LBGT group to people who draw (propaganda) or write (for INN) about Eve.

[Roth_Amschel]

That sounds pretty cool. Sounds like a helpful bunch. I’m guessing “paps” are basically always pvp roams or official offensives if you’re at war? Or does it include other things so long as it’s a corp activity? I see a lot of people use that acronym but was never sure what it meant. Honestly at this point I’m still trying things out so I’m not sure what kind of pilot I’ll end up as. I may really enjoy pvp. I generally have gotten involved with pvp in other games I play and do enjoy it. Tho watching video guides on the subject for this game always makes me feel like I need an aeronautics degree to do it effectively haha! I’ve tended to avoid getting into heavily organized group activities of any kind in gaming since I started having kids. You never know when you have to drop what you’re doing cause somebody is puking or is bleeding or something lol. Tho at nights I’m usually gtg. Thanks for the info I’ve already started working on skills just in case while I decide.

[Alaric_Faelen]

Paps can be for many things. Primarily they track PvP fleets, but we give them out for other things, including training classes/fleets. I believe we pap our mining fleets as well but don’t quote me on it- I don’t mine. You can also help out in other ways-- such as lighting cynos for folks, or moving materials. Heck, even our Burn Jita event was a massive undertaking that had the support of scouts, bumpers, FC’s, people that built, fitted and moved 30,000+ ships into position…

RL always comes first with pretty much any corp worth joining. In fact, a larger group means less pressure on you. If you need to bail in the middle of a fleet- chances are someone can take over your spot. Also, really large alliances tend to have a nearly constant stream of content in the Fleet Finder. So you have to try pretty hard to NOT make whatever participation requirement your corp has.

[Roth_Amschel]

Thanks for that. Definitely sounds way more laid back than I had suspected. But like you said, that atmosphere may be more possible in a larger Corp. Not all are the same naturally, but it’s good to know there’s some laid back folks out there. That kind of attitude is really what matters to me.

[Rosov_Aulmais]

@Roth_Amschel

Freedom of movement is pretty important to me and null sec seems very claustrophobic. Some corps I see only have sovereignty over a few systems and I couldn’t imagine playing this game only playing in two or three systems. So when you’re in say a larger alliance what are the general rules regarding movement? Can you rat, mine, PI in any system that’s blue or are these things more strictly regulated? Can you live in any system you want in Sov or are you assigned a system to stay in?

Well, having a smaller sov means that you can find fights very often and at closer distances, but too often it will become too overwhelming. Maybe NPC nulls are better suited for this kind of situation, since NPC null are available for all, but I am not saying it is impossible for sov null. I still missed the time when our alliance barely lives in small corner of OSY-UD and you can find easy blop targets in several jumps distance. For the rules you can always ask your corp/alliance as they should be more sure on such issue.

@Roth_Amschel

I’m not always in a situation when I’m playing where I want to be chatting up folks on the Internet. But I’m not opposed to being on comms in certain situations. Are mandatory comms mandatory at all times that you’re online or only for fleets and things like that? If you’re deep in sov and mining / ratting is local and Intel enough?

Honestly I am not on comms that often but I do find travelling in null not that dangerous than it looks. I had been able to keep a +4 implant set for about 1 year and 8 months. Try look at zkillboard and Corp channels to get a rough idea on what is going on nearby as an alternative to comms. Still, many would tell you “If you are not on comms, you will be on your own if you get into trouble”.

@Roth_Amschel

Right now I’m used to, when I find or make something, just taking my goods to market and selling them usually just below the lowest guy in station or near about (if it’s a good price). But in null sec I assume the only people with docking rights are other blues so essentially you’re undercutting corp mates on the market, which given the right interpretation is a form of pvp. Is the market heavily controlled as far as what you can sell and for how much? Is undercutting seen as an act of aggression against a bro?

If you sell stuffs in NPC stations cheap enough, others will buy your goods and relist it and you are not actually benefiting your corpmates. Availability had its own price.

@Roth_Amschel

What is the over all attitude toward “Care Bears”? Are Indy / pve pilots second class citizens, or is there more of a team mentality?

Nobody really cares?

@Roth_Amschel

Are “renters” like serfs or something like that or are they more or less afforded the same rights and privileges as the rest of the alliance given they follow the rules of their agreement?

Haven’t touched this aspect of game deep, but I’d assume they would be less loyal in some circumstances.

@Roth_Amschel

If someone joins as an Indy pilot but decides they want to do something else, is that frowned upon? Can people change roles/ careers?

Not really, it’s a sandbox game and you can do anything you want. But yes, people will expect you to perform roles when doing things together and you should try not letting others down.

[Roth_Amschel]

Very cool. Doesn’t sound unreasonable at all. I appreciate the advice. It’s nice to hear all the different perspectives on the situation and obviously a lot of it is situational as I suspected. But all in all it doesn’t sound that “hardcore” which for me is good cause I’m a laid back sort of dude.

[Deandra_Walran]

I’ll answer your question as it relates to my experiences in null as being in a renter corp and as being in a Sov holding alliance.

When I was in a renter corp, prior to PI, the landlord alliance set the rules. Failure to follow those rules could get your corp expelled from the rental alliance and shot on site. We were not allowed to do any PvE outside of the systems that out corp rented, with the exception of an escalation or scanning for wormholes. We were required to get permission to set up a POS, with the landlord alliance knowing the exact location. We were prohibited from mining moons, these were either reserved for the landlord or rented out separately. Our activities were limited to what we paid for, nothing more. We did not have access to the landlord’s SRP or other services afforded to non-renter corps. At the same time, we were not responsible for security, either.

As a member of an alliance that actually holds the sovereignty, you (generally) can do any type of PvE activity in the space your alliance holds. If that is only 3 systems, well, its only 3 systems. Coalitions or friendly alliance may allow you to do PvE activity in your space, but talk to your CEO to make sure you know exactly what the rules are.

If you have access to voice comms, you should be on it anytime you are undocked! This is for YOUR saftey, as information can be relayed much more quickly via voice than text.

Markets in the majority of null space are hit or miss. Some areas may have active thriving markets some may be nearly nonexistent. It is perfectly fine to undercut a corp/alliance/coalition mate in market PvP. What generally isn’t cool is buying up cheap products and relisting it for a much higher price.

Whether you must sell your ores/minerals/loot/etc to your corp/alliance will vary, in my experience it is never mandatory, but many corps/alliances offer a buyback program at a percentage of Jita rates (between 80% and 95% is common). I have found one way to make a decent profit is to sell doctrine ship hulls in your market hub or fitted doctrine ships on contract (set as alliance not public).

Null bears, as we are generally called, are essential to making mull life easier for the more PvP oriented players. We provide easy access to things they need so that everything doesn’t need to be shipped in.

Unless you are in a renter corp, changing what you do is about as easy as in high sec (with maybe the exception of missioning). If you are in a renter corp, changing what you do might require leaving your corp, check with your CEO, first.

[Roth_Amschel]

So renting can be hit or miss depending on the circumstances. But so far living in null doesn’t sound all that bad. I didn’t realize that anyone could put doctrine ships on contract. Thanks for the info. Really all of this will help give me things to ask when the time comes that I hadn’t even thought of. Thanks

[Kitty_Bear]

Forgot to mention about markets in nul
again this is from my limited experience

There’s 2 types of market
regular buy/sell orders for normal stuff (prices will usually be worse than a high-sec hub)
ship sale contracts … usually fully fitted to be doctrine compliant

the regular buy/sell orders wont be as extensive as a HS hub …
you’ll generally always be able to buy most types of ammo & drones along with the most common modules that are used frequently in multiple fits.
you’re purchases are also more likely to be spread over multiple locations due to the lack (in most regions) of a centralised hub for trades, so be prepared to travel to collect your new stuff.

about those doctrinal contracts
someone bought all the pieces (prob in Jita) and then shipped it to your local region
if they are available, it’s a really useful service that someone is risking their isk on
as no sales means no ROI for them

[Roth_Amschel]

Thanks for the info again. I think I’ll give it a try. It would be nice to learn pvp in this game because I generally have enjoyed that in the past with other games. If I have to put aside the industry stuff for now so be it. Blowing things up is probably more fun anyway.

[Alaric_Faelen]

Remember that nothing has to be forever either. If you give it an honest go but it just isn’t what does it for you in Eve-- try something else. You’re never locked into just one thing in Eve.

If you are primarily an industry player, I suggest training up to fly Interdictors. These are used in virtually every fleet that undocks in null sec, so whether it’s a strategic operation with important consequences…or a casual roam with a drunk FC- you will have a spot in fleet. The training time is minimal, the ships cheap (and of course most alliance offer an SRP) and the role important (you aren’t just cannon fodder).
If all you ever fly is a Dictor, no one will care. So you can go back to training for indy/market…there is no need to dedicate the next year of your toon’s life to combat training. Fly a dictor, be a hero.

You might find blowing stuff up is more fun. Or, that snowflake roles like Dictor, logi, or even boosting grabs your attention. If it’s not though…no problem, just fly dictors in fleets and do your own thing everywhere else- remember that mining, ratting, industry…ALL raises the quality of the space so even ‘care bearing’ is good for the alliance.

[Peta_Chieve]

1. This depends on the entity, some will designate you systems and constellations, others will let you go where you please. You’ll just have to shop around to find a group that fits you on that one. In general however, the larger and more organised the entity, the greater the likelihood that freedom of movement will be smaller. It’s mostly a security and fairness thing.

2. I’ll tell you now that members of any corp will always be looked at in a poor light if they refuse to be on coms regularly. There is a stack of reasons, the most important being, community, teamwork and safety. If you’re part of a corp/alliance, you want to actively contribute to it, not just in numbers and ore mined, you want to help build a fun community that draws more people into it; volunteer organizations thrive when the atmosphere is fun and rewarding. Teamwork is bloody hard to do when you’ve got guys that won’t get on coms. To make it worse, these same guys are often the same retards that will scream out help in corp chat, demanding that everyone warp to them to save them, while only giving a scant amount of information. Trust me you don’t want to be that guy, there’s no telling if it’s a trap or you’re just retarded, I personally make a point of ignoring these guys and instead waiting to see the damage on zkill.

3. This depends on the community and the leadership, any smart CEO will want to actively control the local markets, as during a war say, if you don’t have ammo and charges ready 24/7, you’re going to come up short sooner or later. That being said there are entities whose leadership arrogantly claim there is no point or means of controlling a market; these people are idiots. You will however run into issues with your community, if you are found to be overpricing items, you’ll be seen as a jew, if you’re seen undercutting, you’re also a jew. I personally think that when leadership fails to control a market, it’s better for you to shoulder the cost and at least ensure the basics are stocked, even if others think you a money hungry grub. If you are justified in running someone else out of the market, then i’d always do it. That being said, it is very easy to mitigate this, through negotiation and coordination. During my time in Iron Armada, due to a lack of leadership concerning the markets, I created a spreadsheet for all consumables we used, then would allow for people to bid for the right to sell that particular item. You spread out the load, increase profits for corp/alliance and ensure no one is shunned because they happen to like trading instead of ratting.

That depends on the entity, some groups will have 100% tax days on ratting or will ask that a whole belt be donated to the corp. I don’t like entities that fundraise through this means, there are better ways and any entity that has to resort to using these means is clearly not being run very well.

4. Depends on the entity, however the only real place for full blooded carebears is rental corps, however there is no good rental empire in EVE atm, even WERMT is a bad joke when you see what goes on behind. You could join Goons, however, they don’t care so long as you make their numbers bigger. Beyond that however 90% of NS and LS corps will either not do indy at all, or will only do it to fund their PVP.

5. Renters don’t usually get to be in the holder alliance, and no you don’t have much in the way of rights. You’ll be ordered to defend the space you rent, buy structures you won’t own, you will rarely be allowed on holder alliance coms or be told any information that could be used to harm the holder alliance. Essentially, if the agreement states that the holder can turn your couch over and kick you out if they so please, there’s nothing to stop them. Renters are often full of spies aswell, the guy flying next to you could have a cyno and be ready to drop a BLOPs fleet on you whenever they please for your alliances sworn enemy.

6. Don’t think about this too much tbh, the only roles that will harm the alliance are leadership and cap builders, everyone else is replaceable. If you lose an FC, that is a big blow, if you lose a good director that is a big blow, if you lose your best recruiter, that is a big blow. If you lose some guy that sits in a belt all day, not on coms and only yells for help every so often, no one will even notice you’re gone.

Got anymore questions, feel free to hit me up via my discord, i’ve always got time for those who want to learn.

[Roth_Amschel]

Thanks for that. I think I will start with something simple until I get the hang of how fleets run but I would like to eventually learn to do tackle / scouting. It sounds fun and has a lot of skills that I can apply to other situations. I appreciate your advice.

[Roth_Amschel]

In reply to your reply to the thing about comms. I’m big on community and being social it’s one of the most important things I’m looking for. I certainly don’t intend to be “that guy”. Really this is all good info and I appreciate your response. All that I’ve learned from my research and from this thread has really made me pretty excited to move out to nullsec. And honestly I’m looking forward most of all to learning pvp. It’s one part of the game I haven’t explored yet.

I’ve decided to go for it and I appreciate all the feedback from the E-Forums community. It’s helped me a lot. I’m headed out to join a nullsec alliance shortly. I appreciate all the help. o7

[Stanijiro_Karagora]

Thank you for all the good advices.
You may want to edit your post so as not use “jew” as a synonym for “greedy bastard”, though.

[ISD_Buldath]

Removed an inappropriate response from this thread, and those quoting it.

~Buldath