Ratting null Sanshas or Angels with low skills

I’m a low skill (2.6 mil SP) null-sec pilot who so far really likes flying logistics, but I can’t repair ISK out of a rat, so I have to pay my bills somehow.

For my corp, logi means Amarr and Minmatar cruiser hulls, not Gallente; I get tetchy when I am watching training tick away on skills I can’t apply to corp approved logistics knowing I still have so many skills still to learn to be able to do what I actually want to be doing. When I ask for advice, people start bragging about Gallente ships that take lots of skills I have no use for outside of making ISK.

I have moderate skills with drones, gunnery, and missiles, but nothing that nets me t2 anything yet in weapon systems.
I have access to Sansha space (with belts) and Angels space (belts not so much). I’ve tried ratting with a Vexor in Sansha space, and I can do the belts for slow ISK, but when I try the anomalies, I just can’t crack the tank on the later waves. My armor tanked Vexor isn’t so great against the Angels, and I have no better luck cracking their tank so far.

I’m not sure if this is something I can fix without dumping a lot of time into skills that don’t carry over; if there’s a ship that would use Minmatar or Amarr Cruiser skills that I need to skill up anyway to get into the Logistics Cruisers I’m training for that could do the anomalies soon, it would help. If there’s something else I can do without a huge skill detour — exploration, doing my anomaly farming in highsec, or something I haven’t considered — I can do that, too, with the same concerns.

Hi,

the best idea i have:

[Arbitrator,Ratting Arbitrator]
Medium ACM Compact Armor Repairer
Compact Thermal Energized Membrane
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Drone Damage Amplifier I

100MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Infiltrator I x5
Acolyte I x5

to be honest, you want too much too fast

If you can do belts, and you’re in nullsec, I’d recommend you to do belts instead of anoms. The isk-per-hp of the belt rats is a lot higher then the anom ones, and the number of rats in each belt is fairly limited compared to what you get in anoms.

In Angellands, there’s 3 ways you can get started out:

  • Belicoste: Missiles, Long Range
  • Rupture: Artillery, Medium Range
  • Stabber: Autocannons, Short Range

Example Fits:

[Stabber, Stabber Meta]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

220mm Medium ‘Scout’ Autocannon I, Fusion M
220mm Medium ‘Scout’ Autocannon I, Fusion M
220mm Medium ‘Scout’ Autocannon I, Fusion M
220mm Medium ‘Scout’ Autocannon I, Fusion M
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

This Stabber can move up to 3km/s for a short time by engaging the Microwarp Module. It’s passive shield tank happens to have high explosive resistance naturally, and as the Angels inflict explosive damage, it uses more hp instead of more resist with the little mid slots that it has. When close enough to the rats, it turns off the MWD, grabs a pirate with the web, wrecks the pirate, then grab the next one. If the next rat is more then 20km away, the MWD is again used to cover the distance faster.

[Rupture, Rupture Meta]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Parallel Enduring Target Painter

650mm Medium ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Fusion M
650mm Medium ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Fusion M
650mm Medium ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Fusion M
650mm Medium ‘Scout’ Artillery I, Fusion M
[Empty High slot]

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

This Rupture moves very slow when compared to the Stabber, peaking at around 800m/s rather then 3km/s. Unlike the Stabber, though, the usage of the propulsion module will not consume all the available capacitor, and for that reason the propulsion module can, and should, be kept operating.

The Artillery’s trademark incapability of engaging close distant targets, combined with it’s maximal range, force the Rupture to stay within 15-30km of the enemy. With the Afterburner, the Rupture is faster then most rats, especially in anomalies, and therefore it decides the range, and it uses one where the “low range” battleships can’t hit it properly any more, while the “long range” battleships can’t hit it properly yet. With the prop mod spinning, that happens to be the range we want the Rupture to be in anyways, namely 15-30km

[Bellicose, Bellicose Meta]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Parallel Enduring Target Painter
Parallel Enduring Target Painter

‘Arbalest’ Heavy Missile Launcher, Nova Heavy Missile
‘Arbalest’ Heavy Missile Launcher, Nova Heavy Missile
‘Arbalest’ Heavy Missile Launcher, Nova Heavy Missile
‘Arbalest’ Heavy Missile Launcher, Nova Heavy Missile

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Like the two other ships, this beli is passive shield tanked, and does nothing to improve it’s resists. Unlike the Stabber and the Rupture, however, this ship is missile based, which means that it can attempt to outmanouver hostile guns w/o having to bother that doing so could outmanouver the own guns, too. Missiles are generally poor at applying damage to small and fast targets, but the Belicoste has a hull bonus to help with the fast ones, and it also has a hull bonus to target painters, which help dealing with the small ones. The heavy missiles can cover long range engagements way better then either artillery or autocannons, and it can also cover close range (as it’s not being outrun), but a HM Beli likes to keep the hostiles at medium-long range, nevertheless, as the most of hostiles would deal more damage to the belicoste when they’re close.

All fits use passive shield tank because that needs way less skilling to be properly done. A solution with active tank, including remote assisted active tank, would try to increase resistances instead of increasing shield buffer, as high ehp-to-hp ratios yield in high ehp restored with each cycle of the repair module(s). The 3 cruiser fits have 23k to 25k ehp and 45-ish ehp/s passive repair, which equivalates to the effect a medium enduring shield booster would provide… but in order to fit the medium booster and keep it running all the time, the fit would very likely needed to be tuned for capacitor stability, which for a low skill point capsuleer might be hard to achieve, especially on the stabber, where the MWD just eats any capacitor in no time and penalizes capacitor even when it’s not running.

Let’s look at the pew-pew capabilities. All numbers in the chart assume maxed skills, but the exact numbers aren’t really important too see the trend.

First, let’s shoot on frigate rats:
image
The stabber is the clear winner at low range engagements, but, and this is an important attribute about it and the rupture, it will lose to the beli at very low range. The Stabber should be fine orbiting it’s prey at 5km, no need to go closer as doing so only results in the Stabber outmanouvering it’s own guns. The sharp drop in damage output at the 10km mark shows how powerful the stasis webifier works.

For Longer Range, the Beli does quite nice, and the Stabber performance is horrible. On targets that are more then 30km away from it, the Stabber is basically just wasting ammo. What it does is to engage the microwarp again and burn into stasis webbification range. It’s web’n’clap.

Let’s shot on cruisers next:
image
Again, the Stabber has the highest performance on close range engagements, at the price of being useless on long range. Unlike at shoting frigates, the Rupture actually has it’s sweet spot here, where it outperforms it’s competition. It’s also the range where the Rupture performs nicely even if it’s not compared with others, so it’s where the Rupture wants to fight anyways, namely the 15 to 30km range

Lastly, let’s shoot at Battleships
image
Once again, the Stabber slices things up on short range really well. The Rupture is competitive to the Stabber as it’s lack of damage on very low and low range is made up by it’s higher damage in the mid range… and the Belicoste just engages independent of any distance, as usual.

The Stabber will yield the best farm in the belts, where you don’t need to bother about tanking. It can perform nicely in anomalities, too, but it needs to be payed a lot of attention, as some propulsion inhibition on it will render it sitting inmidst of the NPCs… The Rupture is kind of lackluster in the belts as it’s “low range” forces it to move to the rats, but then might have approached them too much, and, compared to the Stabber, is quite slow. Using a Rupture in the anoms works and is alot easier then using a Stabber, however it’s lack of peak damage means the Rupture will take longer to clear the sites. The Beli just opens fire on anything it locks on, which enables it to focus it’s manouvering fully into reducing incoming damage, rather then having to bother about it’s own damage output capabilities due to it’s manouvering on top of damage evasion.

All 3 ships should take drones. For Angels, use the Warrior drones. The drones are primarily defensive… especially the Rupture might find itself in a situation there’s a frigate orbiting it at low distance and the Rupture can’t hit it, nor outmaneuver it, and that’s where Drones come in. The other two ships can opt using the drones aggressively, as they both can handle low distance rats.

The Stabber and the Rupture can opt to add more firepower by installing missile launchers. In that case, the Rupture should load rapid light missile launchers, as those can help it overcoming it’s incapacity to handle frigates.

The Stabber generates damage by quantity of gun fire on it’s targets, while the Rupture and the Belicoste generate damage by the quality of fire. Damage can be increased by using faction ammunition, for the Stabber, however, the ammunition cost would be unpayable.

4 Likes

You’re in Sansha null sec space, which is considered the best place in the game for relic exploration.

Exploration does not take a lot of skills or ISK to start, so if you like the active playstyle of travelling a lot to find sites, scan and hack them, you could give exploration a try!

If you train further into exploration the skills carry over to combat probing (which is a nice skill for PvP, one that can help your fleet) and covops frigates, which is half the skills you would need to fly bombers, which are rather fun in PvP too.

In addition to those fits, here is a cap stable active armor fit rupture, its fit for t2, but lower meta in modules per the skills you have.
[Rupture, 220 TII Cap Stable Rupture]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Multispectrum Energized Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II

Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
10MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
Medium Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Projectile Burst Aerator I
Medium Explosive Armor Reinforcer I

Valkyrie II x1
Warrior II x4

The Energy Neutralizer should probably be a Nosferatu, as NPCs can’t be cap-pressured, but they can be stolen capacitor nevertheless

Active Shield Brawly Rupture would be

[Rupture, Rupture Shield MWD]

Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Large Clarity Ward Enduring Shield Booster
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Fusion M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Fusion M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Fusion M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Fusion M
Medium Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Valkyrie II x1
Warrior II x4

Typical for shield tank, you the repair module is oversized. This Rupture has twice the ehp/s regen of it’s passive tanked variants, at the expense that it needs a lot of skills to be rather high to even fit. Downgrading the guns to the ‘scout’ metas can help a bit, and the Nosferatu module extracts capacitor from NPC ships to help recharging the capacitor faster after the MWD consumed quite a bit.

Note that while this Rupture is MWD fit, the lack of propulsion support modules and the lower basic maneuverability of the Rupture hull renders it almost 40% slower then the passive tanked Stabber. 40% is rather significant for both getting into combat, and getting out of it (e.g. if there’s a warp disruption rat that needs to be outrun before a warpout is possible)

But if a tank mod can be oversized, can’t it be vastly oversized? The answer is, that with shield tank, it usually can, but you sacrifice a lot. This Rupture has a Battleship Tank:

[Rupture, Rupture Shield AB]

Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Gyrostabilizer II

10MN Afterburner II
X-Large Clarity Ward Enduring Shield Booster
Large Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Fusion M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Fusion M
[Empty High slot]
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Fusion M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Fusion M

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Valkyrie II x1
Warrior II x4

It is, however, horribly slow, and lacks damage amplification, which means it’ll do the classic “tank” thing of sitting in the middle of the grid and getting shot by everything, but will have a hard time returning the damage.

The tanks are:

  • 45 to 50 ehp/s for any of the passive fits
  • 65ehp/s for the active armor Rutpure
  • 90ehp/s for the active shield MWD Rupture
  • 180ehp/s for the active shield AB Rupture

180 sounds amazing, but you’re sacrificing movement speed and amplification for it, and the combination means you’re probably better off not going for it. If the Armor Rupture would attempt getting more tank, rather then loading a larger module, it would load two medium modules, but just as it’s shield counterpart it would have to sacrifice a lot to get that working. With two modules, however, in a time of high burst damage incoming, and with an end of this burst being considerable, the tank modules can be overheated to provide more tank, and once the burst damage source has been neutralized, a single module can be shut down for repairs while the second is kept operating to provide tank. Once the first module has repaired, it is engaged, and the second module is taken down for repair. Shield tanks have only one repair module and disabling it for repair is not an option as doing so would strip the ship of all repair capacity, unlike the twin repairing armor ship which would see reduced but still operating tank during heat damage repair.

On the DPS-ies…
image
The twin tracking computed armor rupture has a smooth damage curve, while the stasis webbifying fits all perform great on short but, but far less glorious on medium or long range engagements. The true power of the web comes to show when you consider that the Armor and the MWD Ruptures actually have 25% more on-paper-DPS then the Stabber, but the Stabber is competitive to them, nevertheless.

The Tanky AB Rupture, as expected, fails to be competitive on the Damage Dealing side of things

When shooting at Cruisers/BS
image
The Cruisers NPCs have lower movement speed and larger Signature, which makes it easy to hit them. A battleship target chart is ommited, it would look more or less alike.

The MWD Rupture and he Armor Tanked Rupture perform more or less equally well, the Stabber a bit worse and the tanky AB Rupture loses again.

While the tanky AB Rupture can be seen to have a “poor” damage dealing performance simply by looking at the chart, it’s in-game performance is in fact at least “horrible” on the actual combat grid: It’s low effective range dictates it to be close to NPCs, but it’s lack of movement speed means that it’ll spend ages closing up to them.

Some NPCs prefer to keep long-distance orbits, like Angel Saints that orbit at 33km and move almost 175m/s, but can burn to that orbit with up to 1.4km/s (webs down to 600m/s once in web range) if they’re significantly too close or too far away they from capsuleer operated ships. Even after it managed to catch up to the kite-y NPC, it will take longer to clear it then any other of the fits, including the armor tanking AB fit, which has a whopping 30% more DPS after all.

Burning into target pockets
image
The microwarping ships, especially the Stabber, can cover a significant range in a short time, while the AB ships will struggle. This is the reason why I originally recommended longer range weaponry on the Rupture

My personal recommendation would be the Belicoste. It’s faster then the ruptures, and for all but the “sweet spot” damage ranges it also is superior in DD-ing. The Target Painters also improve damage of the drones, which is a nice extra, although it will barely make a difference since Warrior drones hit things pretty well even without assistance.

3 Likes

No, but you can repair plenty of isk out of incursions. Join TDF.

This is an awesome analysis. Thank you for writing that up. Does using/not using scripts on the armor fit I put out there have an impact on the application vs the meta stabber or bellicose?

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