Rebalanced T3s and Blitzing, anyone done some theory crafting?


(Anize Oramara) #1

I’ve been out of the loop a bit and I’m only now reading up on the T3 changes coming on the 11th. Anyone have some preliminary thoughts regarding blitzing or just general mission running with what looks to be sizable changes to T3s coming?

Some things I’ve noticed so far:

Rigs can be swapped out at will now as a role bonus? Will this impact builds at all? For blitzing you generally want warp speed rigs regardless but it’ll allow oyu to switch between blitzing and I guess normal mission running?

With the combination of warp speed and interdiction nullification being put into the same subsystem and effectively removing a slot, will that effect blitzing too much?

I’ll need to take a lot more time to parse damage potentials but I guess the last (and most important) question for anyone that already has taken the time: Will T3s even still be relevant for mission at all?


Which T3C for PvE?
(Chainsaw Plankton) #2

I’m interested in blitzing lowsec and nullsec pirate lv3s with the cov ops sub since you can also use the dps sub.

Proteus is the only t3c to have a non interdiction nullified warp speed sub, it also comes with agility, so I’ll probably try and use that. Maxing warp speed and align times are probably my two main goals. It also gets a drone bay which can get you out of some bad situations. Also the tengu as king of blitzing was because no one actually tried and documented times with a proteus. I did some trials with one, but didn’t document things strictly so I can’t say one way or the other. but I’d say there is a decent chance the proteus can come out on top.

With the nullification sub the tengu loses a mid slot so I’m not too worried about that, I’m more worried about the lack of low slots in some configs, ended up with 2 lows and way too many mids on my first few fits. I haven’t looked too in depth at the other t3c’s slot layouts yet.

as far as rigs go might be worth it to drop a depot and refit locus rigs or something for combat then swap back to hypers to travel back to station. but that assumes somewhat long mission times don’t know that it would be practical at all.

and of course interested in blitz lv4 tengus, with the acceleration bay and cov ops, should be able to do low/nullsec blitzing. Sure it’s a bit less dps than I’d like but the big LP payouts should help.


(Kelshall) #3

Maxing warp speed

Pardon my complete ignorance - coming back to the game after a reasonably long absence. Why is it important to max warp speed? For the convenience of getting around faster or is there an actual combat purpose?


(Anize Oramara) #4

When talking about blitzing it’s very important. Also helps outrun most fleets chasing you if you want to take it into LS.


(Chainsaw Plankton) #5

the combat part of most missions is rather short, so it is very useful to reduce the time spent doing nothing in warp as much as possible.


(JC Mieyli) #6

thats all youre gonna be doing with a t3c these days


(Andrew Indy) #7

Not really, the new T3C tank just fine and their DPS is pretty good. Sure you will not be getting crazy active tank (1000+) like you could before but still easily enough for a LVL4. Just may have to use speed tanking and kill tackle frigs (playing the game, ohh NO) .

I have a Omni Tank Tengu Fit that perma (10+ Extra cap for Wh nuets) tanks 677 DPS with up to 798 DPS (1 Rigor and 1 TP), and thats with no DC2. With more bling (just a Pith X Large booster) specific hardeners and a DC2 you could tank a tonne.


(JC Mieyli) #8

well lucky tengu
my proteus sucks ass


(Andrew Indy) #9

MMM, not sure what you are talking about. Still perfectly OK.

This Prot Omni Tanks 657 almost stable , does 699 DPS. Will tank more with specific hardeners (1300 vs Gurista with 2 A type membranes ) and DS (1600 v Gurista with 2 B-type Reps and Specific membranes) stuff. Also the only T3C that has a warp speed bonus for a combat fit. Or go for a single A-Type Rep and 3 Mags and you get 793 with Jav while still getting 865 Tank v Gurista and a tonne of spare cap.

Same fit would work for C3s if you drop the TCs for a Webs or 2 if you are worried about frigs. Maybe De-pimp it abit
[Proteus, Test]

Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
True Sansha Medium Armor Repairer
True Sansha Medium Armor Repairer
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane

10MN Afterburner II
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
[Empty High slot]

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Proteus Core - Augmented Fusion Reactor
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Encoding Platform
Proteus Propulsion - Hyperspatial Optimization

Hobgoblin II x5


(JC Mieyli) #10

hm yeah that fit isnt so bad i guess
not that it matters i trained machariel already anyway
just in case


(Chainsaw Plankton) #11

Was also wondering about FW missions last night. The warp speed + cloak + Dps sub should give plenty of dps for blitzing, and should be able to move around fairly easily. The FW missions typically involve a bunch of jumps and the extra warp speed should really help out there.


(Jaded Juno) #12

@Andrew_Indy Think something similar to your posted fit would be okay for DED/Combat sites, replacing hardeners with the equivalent needed for space I’m in? What would you change for 6/10 7/10 instead of missions? Might swap out for the Covert Reconfig since running in low/null?

Need something to run alongside a Legion dualboxing.


(JC Mieyli) #13

well i just compared the new proteus against a deimos for pve
the deimos is better
wow sad times


(Arcturus Ursidae) #14

@JC_Mieyli

What sort of content, Deimos has kind of been okay for a while.

Proteus still seems fairly solid to me, tank for high content may need thinking about but I am not sure it is worse than it was before.

Only had a few moments to play with fittings but at first glance the warp sub seems more viable than before, spare high for an auto targeter, cap regen seems pretty good with the power grid sub.


(JC Mieyli) #15

just looking at simple mission running fits
cant see any reason to use a proteus over a deimos
thats if i could fly one which i cant
but yeah the warp sub is good and its cap stable
but really cap stability means nothing to me
especially when deimos can still run a single rep stable and pulse a second one
which is what proteus did before the changes anyway


(Andrew Indy) #16

I still think that you are exaggerating the issue. For missions the Its fairly even between these ships.

There are some Apples to Apples comparisons. These fits are bit bling because HS missions.

Prot Vs Deimos
Tank ~700 vs ~900
DPS 802 vs 729
Speed 559ms vs 762ms
Warp 4.5au vs 3.3au

So sure, in some way the Deimos is better but in the 2 main ways for missions its not (warp speed and DPS).

[Deimos, mission]

True Sansha Medium Armor Repairer
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermal Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Shadow Serpentis 10MN Afterburner
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Hybrid Collision Accelerator II

Hobgoblin II x5

[Proteus, Test]

Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
True Sansha Medium Armor Repairer
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermal Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener

Shadow Serpentis 10MN Afterburner
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M
[Empty High slot]

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

Proteus Core - Augmented Fusion Reactor
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Encoding Platform
Proteus Propulsion - Hyperspatial Optimization

Hobgoblin II x5


(Andrew Indy) #17

Its pretty much the same as it was before but with lower primary resistances. So for anything vs those primary resistances its a fair chunk less tanky as its hard to get into the 90% resistances.

You do however get 6 Guns and the Cap regen so your DPS is much higher with still a goodish tank.

For Low and NS I would use the travel subs as required. Warp into the site burn off the warp in and drop a Depo and refit while you are shooting things. That’s something a Deimos could not really do as there is no Covert/Null options. it also has free highs so you could scan the sites as well and if motivated you could even swap the rigs for scanning ones.

Just drop the more expensive mods. Missions and DEDs are pretty much the same but with a higher tank Ceiling so modify the tank as required .

Another bonus of the Prot is that it has more fitting room over the Demios (with the Legion vs Zealot the Legion is way better as the Zealot has no drones or active tank bonus).


(JC Mieyli) #18

youre using hobs on the deimos
switch to hammerheads and you will see that dps gap close dramatically
in that case the proteus only has 3.5% more dps which is negligable
then the only advantage proteus has is its warpspeed
while deimos is better in every other way
and what proteus gains in warp speed
the deimos easily makes up with base velocity
reaching 1000m/s with overheat afterburner
and 760 cruising speed
with that kind of speed you might even afford to drop a tank mod in favour of another damage mode


(Andrew Indy) #19

Sure, but Hammers will take way more agro and are way slower so damage application would be lower. Also then you have no spares so you will lose DPS as you run . I use Mediums for DEDs and I pretty much have to kill all the cruisers are frigs before dropping them or they spend more time returning than doing DPS.

Also not everything is HS missions, the Prot has the flexibility of fitting Cloaky/Null/scanning subs so it can be used for a lot more applications.

Also battleships are better for missions so if you really want something good get a Mach.


(JC Mieyli) #20

i did get a mach but i already trained a proteus before the changes were announced
and hobs also get aggro too
i lost 7 hob 2s running worlds collide yesterday
i dont remember them getting that much aggro before
maybe ccp gave the fighter aggro to light drones instead
because my hammerheads got no aggro at all
and you know dps against frigates and cruisers isnt such a big deal when they pop fast under guns
bses are where you really need your dps so i would definitely take the hammerheads over the hobs
so okay maybe your hobs can apply 100 dps to bses a bit faster than my hammerheads
but my whole deimos is gonna be pulling into a decent range of a bs a lot faster
so we can argue applied damage but there are a number of factors
and hull speed accounts for more damage than drone speed

either way the point is they are closely comparable hulls
the fact we are having this argument shows that
the main difference is deimos is a cheaper hull with no sp loss as a drawback
and the sp loss is the main killer for proteus imo