Remove highsec already

Highsec is fine, and necessary. I actually remember being a newbie. The problems you’re citing here don’t actually exist. I like the relaxation of highsec. I keep my collectibles in highsec. I mean, nullsec and lowsec are just one jump out, anywhere in highsec, it’s called wormholes. And nullsec is basically just highsec with more ISK, in any big corp.

Also, highsec isn’t safe at all, especially when in FW. Also the roleplay reasons for these systems being secure would make it feel much less realistic if nothing was defended and nobody cared about it. It’s immersive.

You are not wrong.

The solution though isn’t to remove highsec. Highsec serves an important role for solo, small group, and casual players to play the game. It is interesting having a safer space with lower earning potential for some players to be part of our shared universe. It is a useful place to fall back to if you get chased out of other space, a place to trade, and can serve as a place for new players to learn the game and gather some resources.

But indeed, highsec probably is overrun with veterans competing with the new players for the same things, especially near the trade hubs and that isn’t the ideal experience. Veterans who vacuum up resources with massive multi-box fleets, beat new players to sites with their max skills and will-fit ships, and otherwise outcompete the new player leaving little room for the little guy to spread their wings and compete with the other little guys. Arguably, they are some of the most selfish and corrosive players in the game for the new player experience, and good game design should try to limit the damage these players do.

I think the best solution is. as you hinted at, to drop the new player into lowsec or elsewhere where they have more freedom and get used to both losing things, and easily replacing them. It has to be done carefully of course as you don’t want them just to be farmed out of the game by veterans in another, more shooty-shooty way, but I think it is better option than sending them to compete economically with players they have no hope of outplaying with the ubiquitous CONCORD presence limiting how one can interact. FW or some other similar thing that drops them on teams would be idea as they could learn and get support from veterans who have an incentive to help them.

I think regardless if CCP goes for lowsec or sticks with the highsec starting place, they really need to rethink how they protect some resources from just being taken by the veteran bullies who have never left highsec. Things like those mini-veldspar anomalies they were forced to add because veterans would swoop in and mine out the starting systems. Things that are purposely difficult for high skill, or multiboxing veterans to exploit efficiently, yet still offer a good income to a newer player.

That’s a tall order though. It really is tough for a game designer to micromanage a sandbox game as such. But definitely, getting new players out there willing to lose things and directing them away from a short life as a highsec PvE farmer, is the next major hurdle for the NPE team.

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Dropping players into low-sec is like throwing minnows into the hungry shark tank. They’re so desperate for content they’ll shoot anything and everything…

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You’re going to have to explain why you think floating people out to feed PvP egos is good for the players being sacrificed.

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I wonder, though, how many people are interested in that and how many people are more like Dopefish, who rather get choked in high sec than leave it to find something more interesting to do and to live in.

It is not even like there are no pointers and invitations to leave high sec. Nearly every busy gate and station has containers and depots with corp ads. YouTube is full with awesome PVP videos in low sec. And the recruitment forums are full with corps wanting more people. Nothing is preventing anyone from just going to low sec and null sec.
If you realize you are choking to death on your lack of competence but you do not look for a change on your own there is not much the mechanics and functionalities can do to help you. After all, you have been ignoring a plethora of indicators and pointers to improve your experience or at least change it for a long time.

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Maybe 71% of the population of EVE are casual players, don’t have time for the cutthroat pace of low-sec or any desire to join one of the mindless hordes in null. I would bet that many who do leave high-sec go to wormhole space.

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This is a sandbox where the only thing guaranteed is freedom. Nothing is stopping anyone from jumping over to low sec systems whenever they please.

Nope.

Highsec is going nowhere.

And stop with your elitism. There isn’t “one true way” to play Eve. Hell, there’s not really a “wrong” way to play Eve. (Except when you make things. The minerals you mine aren’t free :wink: )

This very much smacks of “stop having fun where I can’t freely kill you.”

There’s nothing stopping people leaving highsec. No bouncers saying “you must have this many skill points before you leave.” Any limitation there is self imposed.

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Exactly. Also, there are more areas of high sec beyond just a few jumps from a trade hub. I consider these areas the “rural” areas of Eve. Many of these areas have low populations, thus providing plenty of space for small corps and players to grow. The downside is that they have to travel further for supplies.

Anyone who thinks they are “stuck” in high sec still has no idea what this game is about.

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Don’t worry, You’r just another short minded guy that don’t understand how world works. Remove HS and game will die in months.
Why those who think they want the best for game they really want it for themselfs and propose things that would literally kill game?.. EVE is very complex and all ALL aspects, gameplay possibilities are conected, You will remove one thing an everything collapse or just became unplayable. Dunno why so many mental 12y old guys here… And omg those hardcore PVPers who thinks theres no other way of playing eve… the biggest cancer of game, srly! Also why should anyone be interested and try to force someone to not play, waste time and spend money as they want?

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There are 2 sides to Eve. The destruction side, combat simulation and the production side, economic simulation. Some players enjoy competing on the battlefield, some enjoy competing in the marketplace, some enjoy both.

I play Eve for the economic simulation. I spent 2 years in Nullsec but it was frustrating. Much of the material I needed wasn’t available on local markets, I had to ship it in from highsec. Many of the products I made sold more quickly and at higher prices in highsec. Eventually shipping costs increased to the point where it made no sense to continue operations in Null. Risk aversity had nothing to do with the decision, it’s simply a question of where is the game I enjoy best played.

Since then the miracle in Delve has shown that the economic game can be played in Null but that needs to spread to other regions before I consider moving back.

I suggest those who consider highsec safe take a look at the destruction statistics in the MER. 7 of the top 10 regions for destruction are in Empire space.

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@Dopefish
used a bit too much dope eh?
so you just call for more content to shoot … it has nothing to do with the “noobs cant compete with older players” … its just you and your ego want to shoot stuff but it doesnt need to be hard to kill or you really need to work for a kill … you just want a easy kill and lough about the low experianced guy you killed …

i never was in null so i have no idea how life there is
i have freinds who left to null … hey i even have guys who entered eve after i joined and they are now in null … made first steps in the corp i am in and now they are in null … have carriers n stuff but … i enjoy HS … bit LS … sometimes a WH … thanks … its cool … isk is not the thing i play for … easy kills is not the ve i looking for
1000 easy kill is winning eve? 100.000.000.000isk is winning eve? have all capitals on your main char is winning eve? ok i will never win then … i dont even have a capital skill …

you thnk the way you play eve is the only right way to play eve and who else thinks the same way? only your alts i guess …
seriously the way i play eve is boring for others but i like it and i can do it
as long as i want … you cant change that … you cant change the way others play eve
if you want easy kills to and join the frighterkillers in jita :wink:
i dont like them but they are part of the game … its there way to play eve and its ok …
you can join the scamers in jita too … i really enjoy them … they are funny guys …

so there are many ways to play eve … noobs can do anything in HS they want and they can allways compete in HS … you know why? because of the skill system … it takes a bit but he is easy as good as every other player in a certain thing … not overall but in skilling range he can get as good as i am in this certain thing … like exploration … it takes a bit but he can have as good skills as i have within a few weeks (2 months in full skills i guess - deplends on the ship) but in my skills he is as good as i am in a few months and he can get even better then me in skills (i dont have max skills) … so what you say is the total oposit of the realy situation
what you cant skill is experience but that will come when you compete with more experience players … if only noobs are in HS no experience is comming because you dont need to compete … then the “experience gap” is in LS … changes what?

all in all i think you write total bulls*** but thats ok … you can do that
its ok to write bulls*** but dont belive in what you write … all the others out there are not total idiots … we all know what we do and why
and of corse there are guys out there who are much smarte then me … and you

so enjoy EVE wherever you want … in any way you like and let the carebears take care on the noobs in HS … when this noobs enter you whateversec space they usually know a little and have a little skills to not get direct shoot by you

fly safe
JuuR

i like to call for closing this thread - thx

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HS is just a sector with different mechanics.

Its no safer or noob-friendly than anywhere else, as long as you abide by the mechanics there.

If people are happily playing in High Sec (and you seem to forget that this is a possibility due to your own personal bias towards Low) then there is no reason to remove it.

Their way of life is no better or worse than yours.

Others do not need to play the game your way.

This is what the sandbox is truly all about.

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Not sure of that. There are plenty of groups, especially around FW that are looking for pilots to join up. It’s totally in their interest to nurture and keep new players around and fighting on their side in their various forever wars.

I agree, it has to be done carefully, there is no reason a new player can’t have a fun and rewarding time in lowsec from day 1.

What in the heavens are you going on about. Getting players comfortable with loss is a major psychological hurdle that ends up boring a large fraction of players out of the game. They just build and horde stuff and train skills until they are “ready” to PvP, which of course never occurs and they just get bored and quit the game.

The current NPE makes a couple feeble attempts to desensitize players to loss by exploding their ships, but really new players should at least have the option of some lowsec experience where they lose a dozen or two ships to other players. I agree, you can’t just dump them alone and leave them at the mercy of hostile veterans, but it is totally reasonable to build some system, place or sites that put them on a team either play fighting each other, or even the other side of the faction war. Link these training sites in some way to faction war so the veterans have an incentive to train and defend them so they can later join their side.

Of course this should be optional like everything in the sandbox. If you just want to build widgets and not compete violently, then you can trundle off to highsec and set up your widget making operation bypassing this. But I think the game would benefit immensely if the default NPE had an element in lowsec, probably faction war, so they can interact with veterans and get really used to the paradigm that ships are disposable and that losing them to other players is perfectly normal and intended game play.

No, it is for you, but no necessarily for new players. For the new player, they start in the safest zone and are warned by a popup how dangerous lowsec is when they try to enter, so it is completely reasonable that most of them conclude they “aren’t ready” to leave highsec. Yet, as we established highsec isn’t the “new player zone”, just a zone with a different rule set that makes space for those who prefer to play alone or in small groups, or more casually. There is indeed no reason why they can have a fun and rewarding experience as a newer player in lowsec, and arguably, the more action-packed and social environment there might keep more players. We lose far too many to the traps of solo mining and solo missioning careers as CCP’s data tells.

I see no reason why you couldn’t invert the situation and put the players in lowsec in a controlled setting to get a taste for combat and lose some ships to get used to that, and gain exposure to social groups like fleets and corporations which are more necessary there. There would be no barrier for those that don’t like it to move back to highsec. I can see that having a better potential to retain new player then dropping them into a belt to compete with some silent multiboxing miner in highsec, or off to “level their Raven” by themselves for a month or two before they quit.

But yes, the OP is being provocative (or perhaps just silly) in calling for highsec removal. That is a non-starter of an idea. But I am with him that perhaps highsec isn’t the best place for all new players to end up, and there should be some more guided part of the NPE to get more new players into the dynamic environment of lowsec, at least for a time, to get a taste of more of the game.

I can’t speak for others, I can just tell you my experience. I have put for considerable effort here and there at times to go to nullsec, but haven’t been able to find a suitable opportunity. Just an example of my most recent attempt, I approached a TEST recruiter and tried to ask some basic questions, but right after I got my first basic question out (something on the order of ‘what are your tax rates?’), I got back ‘Why do you want to know?’ I was like ‘Uhh… I was just curious about joining up with you guys. Why? Are basic questions like this super-top secret or something?’ then I got back ‘Are you a miner?’ I was like ‘Uhh… I’ve probably done a little mining in my Eve career, but not in years. I can’t really remember the last time I mined, but either way what’s wrong with mining? Isn’t that part of the game?’ I got back ‘We don’t accept miners. Are you an industrialist?’ I retorted ‘Ah, interestingly enough, not yet, but I am training up industry skills even as we speak.’ I got back ‘We don’t accept industrialists, we are elite PvP. And in looking at your kill board, I don’t see a mile long kill list or anything so don’t call us, we’ll call you.’ That’s pretty much verbatim how the conversation went.

Most nullsec’cers I run across seem to be under the impression that joining up out in null somewhere is a piece of cake - all you have to do is snap your fingers and be welcomed in with open arms. For some of us, that just isn’t the case.

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who%20gives%20a%20fuck

The problem is “I’ve just died 4 times in a row to the same person. This sucks, I’m gone.”

Either you cluster them up, so they see other new players (then get farmed.) or you spread them out (hope you like being in the back of nowhere, with no ship supply) to avoid the farming.

Ship loss can be a hard thing for players to take. Yes, some types find it an appeal. But not when it’s a dunk.

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100% agree. Ship loss is hard anwyay. Some people are quite fond of their ships, and a needless gank is a demoraliser.

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It isn’t ‘ship loss’ per se. It is loss of hard-earned ‘whatever.’ What it really means is loss of time. You invest a lot of time and work into something (buying a ship) just to have it blown away to satisfy someone’s jollies, it isn’t fun. And since ‘fun’ is the point of the game…

For the record, most low sec I’ve ever encountered is essentially off-limits, certainly to new players. What I mean is, there’s gonna be a gate camp sitting there, and you’re gonna get blown up the instant you jump in and come out of gate cloak. If for some reason there isn’t a gate camp there, you are still going to get hunted down doing whatever you are doing (ninja ratting or mining) in relatively short order.

The other day I spent quite some hours looking for the most uninhabited low sec I could possibly find. I finally found the place that (according to the maps) had the least amount of traffic, least number of kills in X number of hours, etc. And I went there and did stuff. And I was still hunted down and blown away in relatively short order. Note that I’m not complaining in the slightest - I expected it, I had my ship insured to the fullest extent, I didn’t fly what I couldn’t afford to to lose, and I didn’t care. I’m just throwing this out there to describe what’s gonna happen to the newer player who tries to go into low sec.

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