Restrict Capitals in lowsecs


(John Lawyer) #1

Atm, Capital ships are limiting development of subcap activities in lowsec.
Half times while flying shiney BS (Nightmare, Bhaal) you will probably get dropped.
Gathering small fleet of 10-15 cruisers with logi wing - definetely worth dropping as well.
Also, pirate subcap camps (I can speak of gal/cal warzone) have some biggies in the sleeve as well.
One dirt cheap FAX can rep out whole fleet, and it costs like two reasonably priced hero-Battlleships - its just wrong.
So, restricting combat capitals (except haulers and miners, of course) in lowsecs will let those little groups to develop and inhabit neighborhood with some fresh blood.
I believe it will be a good change for ppl who are not going hardcore (traingin, buying, fitting caps on their alt-chars etc…).
What do you think?


(Merin Ryskin) #2

No.

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(Slayer Liberator) #3

How about no


(Salt Foambreaker) #4

That is what should have happened when the ships were introduced, now it is too late.

Capitals are a lesson in ship power creep and why that is a bad thing.

If they had introduced new space so caps expanded outward, that would have made all the difference.

But without new space they just caused everything that was to be replaced by one thing.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #5

the initial jump fatigue changes helped with this a lot and it was one of the best periods for lowsec in a long time including allowing smaller groups to actually use caps. but the null bears cried and cried until just about all the changes have been rolled back


(John Lawyer) #6

Well, maybe there is no need to invent new space while we already have one - Nullsec!


(Teckos Pech) #7

Returning to higher/increasing maximum fatigue limits would likely reduce this problem. It seems ridiculous to set the maximum amount of fatigue at 5 hours and the jump timer to 30 minutes. Now you can jump your capitals around with almost no serious cost in terms of fatigue. So you have jump fatigue of 5 hours and a 30 minute jump delay timer. Meh…who cares. Yeah, maybe in that 30 minute window you can’t jump in your caps, but that is a small window. Maybe 9.6 hours for a jump delay is too long, but going from 9.6 hours to 30 minutes? That is a 95% reduction in the penalty…you’ve just about eliminated it.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #8

not to mention the amount of jumping you needed to do to get 9.6


(Old Pervert) #9

Don’t forget the cancer that fatigue was implemented to beat. Capital fleets traversing Eve as fast as their capacitors would carry them, crashing fights wherever they happen.

The current fatigue changes still force you to stage your capitals in a theatre, any more than 2-3 jumps and you’ll almost certainly miss the fight.

High fatigue is fine in lowsec because lowsec is small. Deployments shouldn’t take 2-3 days in null because of lowsec though. That ■■■■ sucks balls.

So… counter-proposal. A jump landing in lowsec space imparts higher fatigue than a jump into null.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #10

I would say to or from LS but if this was added I would also like LS to have penalties on non-covert jump ranges originating inside them (industrials may be exempt as well).

problem is how to implement such things in a way that feels organic and well understood


(Old Pervert) #11

Hmm. An interesting approach. I could see that working in place of increased fatigue. It would reward you for staging your capitals in a theatre, without punishing you for using them inside that theatre.

One possibility would just be to increase the separation between LS systems… increase their distance in LY. No actual mechanics change at all (indies would get punished but… shrug?).


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #12

so would the blops something that is already a very unique gameplay of its own when done in LS. it would be horrible to see this suffer more than it has. dropping in LS is such a different experience than dropping them in null. particularly FW space

ccp could make it so in LS there are some sort of jump disrupters similar to the cyno jammers of HS they could then even add these to null suck should a group want to add them to their own space making it harder for capitals (including their own) to move around even if not widely used they would make the ones in LS feel more natural

EDIT:

actually those would be nice in null. it could create situations where an enemy deciding to stage from your boarder could reach a system for attack but not be able to jump back to friendly space in only one jump


(Old Pervert) #13

I’ve literally never dropped on someone in low before… so I couldn’t rightly say what the impact of it would be to blops.

Opens up an interesting capital bait strategy, that’s for sure. Jam out most of their exit systems, leave a dread bomb ready to jump on them while they’re exiting.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #14

well by spreading the systems out you lower the systems they can hit. in LS viable targets are much harder to find already. but the targets you do find tend to have a much higher concentration on being more interesting. rather than just ratters miners and bots. In FW LS you almost require two hunters as most targets will be in sites. The most enjoyable part is they are used much more in a fleet support roll. you will have a normal LS roam fleet kick up dirt and draw attention then when a bigger fleet shows up your recon (normally an arazu) lights a cyno. so rather than hit and run targets you get to use blops fleets in proper fights


(Old Pervert) #15

And that’s where my knowledge suffers. I honestly have no idea how far you even need to jump to reach across a LS pocket.

I… I may have to check this out. I know you and I have argued about the merits of more combat-capable blops (as I’m null, that means a stupid high buffer) in threads that I’ve made asking for more tank.

I honestly have a dream of one day dropping a blops fleet mid-fight, being the hammer to the conventional fleet’s anvil. I never knew that was even a possibility in low. But I guess, smaller gangs mean that you don’t just trade kills, so it makes sense.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #16

yeah we have tried it a bit in null but it requires prohibitively pricy T3s most of the time. In null however not only do people not expect it but the size of most fights mean you can drop almost anything if you build your comp around it. bombers recons blops t3s all have a good place when doing it.

you just need to find a group of blops pilots willing to sit there listen to the roaming fleet getting into the smaller fights while waiting for their time to shine. We found the best way to keep ourselves from being recognized and avoided was to live out of a WH with a LS static so we were never in one area for very long


(Old Pervert) #17

That’s what I’d worry about most, is getting baited. I’d have to be a once in a blue moon kind of thing (not to mention major opsec), otherwise I can promise a capital blob would be ready to counter-drop you. The LS static would certainly help, but it’d only be a matter of time before you’d be recognized and counter-dropped if it happened with any regularity.

It’s a very expensive fleet unless you just bridge in a bunch of bombers for cheap lulz… which certainly is a thing… but not personally satisfying to me.

I’d freaking love to have a good reason to drop the blops on something. But alas, for the cost it makes more sense to drop carriers or dreads in null.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #18

things that would be solved by finding a way to fix ls caps


(Salt Foambreaker) #19

It would be so awesome if blops fleets could be viable and worthwhile in ls.

To me it is low hanging fruit in “make EVE awesome”.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #20

they just have to be carful with it. they can’t do it by making them any stronger or you will wind up with them being oppressive.

the worst part about that happening is the overcorrection nerf that would destroy them