Revisiting Highsec Wardecs

Incorrect.

The suspect flagging is what im saying will cause things to fail.
Please Nevyn use that reading comprehension you trained to V.

You literally were talking about wardeccing. How about you actually train Writing to I.

no i was not,

I implied only those that already use War Decs or ganking as a playstyle will applaud a Suspect timer effect on Belt ores.

And get that i said belt ores…

Cause after a moon chunk is fracked, it is no different than an anom or a regular belt.

pat pat There there, it’s ok you haven’t trained writing to I yet.
Now how about you actually explain why you believe suspects for anyone out of corp/alliance in moon mining would be so terrible without just going ‘but it’s not how things work currently’.
And preferably without complaining about how the poor miners will be at risk from wardecs or some mythical group will run around killing every single ninja mining suspect instantly, because that totally happens to suspects everywhere currently.

Don’t feel like defending is needed. He’s little more than a troll these days.

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This is definitely a risk if ownership was somehow introduced.

However, I don’t think the nullsec groups would really be that interested in rental income in highsec. The return from the moons doesn’t match what they achieve in null and they haven’t shown much interest in locking down for example, low value lowsec moons.

So while it’s a risk, I think it’s one CCP would have time to balance around, but I don’t think it would ever be needed.

Then why don’t they already own all the moons. Since they could do that if they actually wanted to right now. Nothing stops them taking the moons and just denying anyone else the use of them right now.

Sure you can, we’ve already addressed why you can do it, what other similar scenarios in the game already give suspect flags (aka loot), and why moon belts are different to regular belts. And you absolutely can code a moon belt differently to a regular belt. It would require literally a single flag on the grid space.
Though I’m not in favour of an ACL system because that still allows the miners to hide out of corp. Which means it gives everything to the owning corp with zero downsides, while I prefer a give & take approach.

And it doesn’t kill ninja mining, because people still have to actually be present in space to defend. Especially if you are doing it for salt & tears. Because you can set up with combat ships nearby to surprise attack them after the LE exists. Which can even be after the suspect flag expires. Exactly like people did when Crimewatch 2.0 was first introduced in the hubs till people got wise to suspect baiting again (well, most people did, it still works on some people).

Imagine that! You contribute to a thread being derailed, then cry for it to get locked when you don’t agree with the discussion instead of doing what a reasonable person ought to do - Don’t read the thread and don’t post.

Besides, this is still very much about wars and how structures interact with them. You’re free to go if you no longer have anything to contribute. You’re excused :slight_smile:

Pirat wouldn’t be interested in directly owning Athanors like this. It would be considered a weak spot in which an enemy could easily attack us and exploit. We’d rather have people pay us to attack and defend them.

Smaller groups though? Absolutely you will see small groups of PvP’ers taking Athanors away from PvE focused groups that have no PvP wing. Changes to make their resources defendable will encourage all sorts of new players to want to plop one down. The strong and smart will survive while the lazy and incompetent will likely move onto other things such as just being a miner than I’ve given access to through my Athanors ACL.

Capitalism is good. It creates conflict and all sorts of things that create our interesting narratives in this game.

Ok that’s at least something.

And the wardeccer can mine a wartargets moon ore without timers? Did i read that somewhere?

Yeah i get why we got rid of aggro in the first place.

But suspect allows anyone to engage, whether they are in house or not. So there’s even less reason for people to be in corp with the athanor.

All the benefits and none of the drawbacks.

Uh… to not go suspect themselves? I’m wanting it to be corp/alliance only, not ACL controlled as otherwise I agree, it is all the benefits.

I mean yes, suspect anyone can engage. But that’s like saying anyone can engage someone looting in your mission because they are suspect. Practically only the people actually already at the Athanor can engage, who will be only corp/alliance members the way I’m proposing.

Yeah i think the combat wing should also be in house if they intend to defend the belt.

Ok, I get what you are saying. I think it adds massive chance for bugs trying to create a new flag type, for very little benefit. I don’t see corps hiding their combat wing in an NPC Corp really, the combat wing is the most likely to be kept in Corp simply because of wardecs. And if they can persuade random locals to come defend for them, shouldn’t we reward that kind of cooperation.

Since what you are looking for is a limited suspect flag, as LE are created two ways, so trying to do something with LEs would end up making it legal for you to shoot the owning Corp simply because you mined in their belt, which would be all kinds of stupid.
And I can just imagine how much coding work a limited suspect flag would be to make sure it didn’t break anything. I just think we are better off using an existing mechanic that is close, aka the suspect mechanic. It actually makes it possible they’ll implement this idea.

I’ll just leave this here, as it is relevant.

TLDR nobody wants to mine your moon anymore.

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In a perfect world wardecs would be cheaper and i could use a wardec to mine someone elses belt. In a perfect world we’d have something like wardec rights instead of kill rights/suspect.

But since wardecs are completely f*ked and forever will be, I’d rather nothing happen at all because i can contest a belt by mining harder and smarter.

Any timer, suspect or otherwise, just means mining for mining sakes stops. It just becomes about baiting (seriously how many people mtu hunt or ninja salvage for the materials?..Exactly).

But LE is at least better than suspect.

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LE just won’t happen though. Because it’s a coding nightmare, as they haven’t set it up to allow group vs group. Also see below.

Why not wardec though. Under what I’m talking a wardec would work fine to mine, I imagine if it’s locked to corp/alliance only for a suspect flag it would be possible to exclude a war target from going suspect since we already have similar code for CONCORD and their miners have to also be at war or it’s their miners going suspect, so the suspect flag actually works better to allow you to use wardecs as a tool to mine, since if it was just a 'Corp LE they can hide their miners out of corp all they want. So if you want to use wardecs as a tool it seems suspect flag actually is better for you.

Also I don’t think it was you but someone else talking about Freeport mining. If we are using looting as our example, you can blue wrecks, why not blue the field. Same level of control though to keep it fair. Corp only (field is yellow on overview to everyone else) or field is open/blue. No ACL controls for the above discussed reasons.

Because of their current situation.

Hardly anyone is going to use wardecs in their current state to contest a belt for the purposes of mining.

lolol :rofl:

I had to come find this thread after reading this.

Never revisit high sec war decs. It was meaningful until too many puppies jumped on it. Such times were had!

Well that’s because in their current state the miners can just wardec dodge. Talking about current state as bad when proposing a change is exactly why changes are proposed.
If the miners can’t dec dodge it becomes far more attractive to wardec them.

Though yes, CCP have also just utterly killed highsec moon mining since most of the moon goos are below omber prices now.

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