RIP Project Nova.... again

Communications Center General Discussion
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Right, but you intended to pitch it to a studio you knew had a bad track record with other projects, i mean this isn’t the first failed CCP project by a long shot, so the question is, knowing that CCP had a track record for failure, why would you even try to pitch them an idea you “claim” was worth 2 billion? you know, instead of just founding a studio to do it yourself thereby making you that 2 billion instead, i mean you yourself said you had a prototype reading in a weekend so you sound like you have the skills to make this a reality or to atleast know people who could help you build it, if you were so sure it was worth so much why didn’t you make it yourself, or at the very least by pitching it to a proper studio

Although you said you were pitching this to them only months before the other games launched meaning CCP wouldn’t have had the time to create something and get it to market before the likes of fortnite dropped anyway and they would have had an inferior product by comparison

I’m not knocking your idea or what you visioned the game to look like, but considering the CCP standards it wouldn’t have met them :stuck_out_tongue:

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Which company might this be?

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Hmm.

I must disagree with that last point, and Blizzard is an interesting example of this.

They had WoW, that was using the lore of warcraft, and used that to make a CCG. They have also used warcraft (and others) for heroes of the storm.

If you want my subjective opinion (not that anyone is asking:scream:) then I will say this:

EVE-Online is the centre of the solar system of IP they own, and from there they have the opportunity to create other games from this IP, and these other games would be the planets of that solar system, with DLC/content/lootboxes as moons.

-planet FPS (with BR game mode and lootboxes)
-planet CCG (with lootboxes)
-planet RTS (with SP+MP campaigns, and lootboxes)
-planet RPG (with DLC, no lootbox)

Now - that’s just my subjective opinion, but if you have an IP like EVE-Online, the above is a no-brainer of potential consideration.

What they attempted was bold, for DUST514, and showed people what their focus was with that game = to increase exposure to other gamers of their IP. Fine. But it didn’t work to the extent it needed to.

What (I personally believe) is the problem with EVE is they made attempts over the years to incorporate other game types and genres (kinda) into EVE-Online. Running down the list:

-Ambulation. This could have been an RPG, running completely independently from the EVE servers, so to speak. Heavily story based, the player could have started off as a docking bay grunt, and through story could have gone through an arc, after encountering any number of EVE characters, and oh I don’t know, ancient artefacts?

-Planetary interaction. This could have been an RTS. Fighting over resources.

-CCG. They had CCG, could’ve made it an independent game for tablets/mobile computing.

So…yeah, they tried to bolt some of this into EVE (they at one point even had card games/poker gambling in the source files, complete with sound FX, you remember that?), instead of making separate games in the grander scheme of the IP.

edit: I think the new owners of the EVE IP and probably analysing this as part of the development process, and will want to exploit the IP in as many different game types as possible.

I know I would if I had bought the company.

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Sorry - but RL me and IC me (in this day and age) are separate entities.

It’s a software development firm for a very niché industry sub-section, that’s all I will say. I’m sure you understand the importance of anonymity.

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I had no idea that is how much that particular game mode would be worth to the industry! As mentioned, it was additional flavouring to the potential conversation. I wasn’t looking to make money from them.

Just wanted to help out, but, my help wasn’t needed - so…it’s both of our respective losses? No bad blood between us, but I haven’t PM’d any of them in years, too busy.

Fornite save the world was essentially 3 games, a mine-crafting building game, a zombie hoard game and an fps. So, perhaps you are right.

As I said above, I will have to see how the next 5 years go before I make a move in this area, but it is part of my business plan. Business plans are fluid documents though, as are investors :slight_smile:

They would have had time. Plenty, in fact. The work they had done was pretty complete.

Valkyrie was interesting. They could take a lot of those assets and reuse them, and I think they authored that game on 4.14, too.

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EVE is already RPG, tho it isnt seen as that by majority of people, who rather see it as a world of spaceships and they treat it as such. But EVE was RPG to begin with, the chronicles were written as a lore introducing stories, there are races, character atributes, avatars, missions, storylines, etc… It was realized with simple means tho.

Ambulation was sort of upping the realism, never meant to be a separate game, but extending EVE world deeper into lore and providing immersion of being in this EVE world as capsuleer, but outside ship. It was breathtaking to see the world in such magnification, like being in a frikkin Blade Runner movie! :heart_eyes:

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Agree, agree, agree - but it could have been an independent game.

Part of the problem is the development process - you keep adding new game mechanics into a game, and you dilute the existing mechanics.

Simple question: do you want players to be walking around a station environment, or do you want them flying spaceships?

If the former, then you have to perform an ever-increasing code development and gameplay mechanics to accommodate the new game mechanic. This is (partially) why it takes an absolute age to get anything done, as anything, really and truly anything can break the camels back.

Introduce a new drone, and it (inadvertently) messes up with transversal velocity math and code. So, you fix the code, only to find it messes up other code, in a completely unrelated game mechanic elsewhere in some antique code involving activating a mining laser. Or something.

So - the behemoth which is the EVE-Online code is crazy fragile, and any development requires significant resources to check check check check, which puts massive pressure on teams, and causes the devs to be at wits end for weeks. Make one wrong move in any direction, and it all falls apart.

This then, makes devs get into the blame-culture - because no one wants to be the one to take a dangerous step in any direction, unless they got their backs covered. I don’t blame any dev for having those thoughts, because no one wants to have their job on the line if anything goes wrong.

If you make independent games, you side-step this.

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I always imagined it as being able to do both, would you believe how many hours people spend in stations shipspinning and chatting? :joy:

CCP had CARBON technology, and they could have done CQ because of that and integrate it with EVE. So that was possible. The way it turned out is really a shame, because it was very good technology, despite people compleining they had problems running it in 60 FPS.

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Exactly!

The problem is this: IF (and it’s a big IF, complete with capital letters, in bold) you have any gameplay mechanics which detracts away from the core mechanic, you have to have a purpose to it.

So…what purpose is served from having pod pilots walking around a station environment?

None.

So, make it a separate game, for those that are and are not part of the EVE universe, if they do (or do not) wish to take part in said game.

If it fails - it does not affect EVE’s code or mechanics, and, it stops all competition (players in EVE spending money on an RPG) from existing revenue-depleting streams.
It it’s successful - it adds positively to your bottom line, and will draw in new players to the EVE Universe.

Cool.

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There was a purpose, for the beginning there were planned new boosters, and mechanics of smuggling them and they could have been taken only in station, tying both sections into one. From CQ alone you had UI extensions. Planned were multiplayer environments for social purposes, vanity items, physical corporation HQs with map of sov, bars with gambling tables.

For far future were prototyped exploration mazes, together with obtaining special materials that could be used in manufacturing or else. The exploration part was centered around maze run.

So that concept had really legs to stand on.

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PvE players were not part of the core mechanics. WiS was a way to give them content -a different way to play EVE, even without undocking. The ultimate science-fiction simulation game.

We don’t know whether it would have worked, but CCP’s decission to focus on the core mechanics, which became official after Rubicon, has led to a game being played by less people and earning less money for CCP despite all the stimuli added (MT, F2P).

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Again: none of that bore any connection to flying a spaceship!

Don’t get me wrong, I understand your point completely, but adding game code and development into existing game mechanics is fraught with development problems.

Everything you listed - did not need to be bolted on.

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True.

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Smugling boosters was inside spaceships, and when smugled they were planned to be taken in avatar form in the bar. So it was basic example how to do it. Also mixed missions, a part of fighting in space, partly running maze, that was possible because of CARBON, like CQ was possible.

CCP had some great ideas, breaking boundaries. But that was then.

What CARBON allowed, CIG is now trying to develop using Lumberyard, to use in Star Citizen. Star Citizen is only doing it with other means, mainly no loading screens. But loading screens in EVE could have always be masked with video playing. The Jump from system to system also had loading screen initially, but doesnt have now. It was replaced with graphics sequence.

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That is still a distraction from the existing game mechanics on flying a spaceship. That is development hell.

As for CIG, don’t get me started…it will break the forum text limit several times over :slight_smile:

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It doesn’t matter, it never did.

IF there is something unique to do in WiS that doesn’t have anything to do with spaceships then it doesn’t belong in the game.

IF there is something in WIS that is unique and has to do with spaceships then it is an issue because players are being forced to WiS.

IF there is nothing unique then it is pointless and duplicative.

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They already made an EVE card game, it flopped, they have now tried to make 2 FPS games, one flopped the other was murdered, an RTS isn’t really going to appeal to many people and the RTS market is basically dead and replaced with MOBA’s at this point, and EVE doens’t make for a compelling MOBA, an RPG really wouldn’t work that well either, it would either be existing lore you have no control over or just end up as skyrim with a sci-fi texture pack, which i don’t really think is going to sell as CCP are not known for their super engaging lore anymore

Yes there are loads of things you could on paper “do” with the EVE IP, but realistically anything is going to lack the depth actual EVE players want to bother with and it won’t be compelling enough for people to abandon a similar game they already play to play an EVE themed version

CCP doesn’t really do original ideas anymore, but thats fine, like i said they should focus on the game they are actually good at instead of just burning money trying to break out in to other overly saturated markets, they would need some extremely compelling new and never done before idea to even have a chance, but even then they arne’t really big enough to make something that another much larger studio couldn’t clone and do better, the EVE brand isn’t enough to make spin-off game succeed without actually having some real meat behind it

Mainly because the mechanics that actually made them interact with other players were terrible, the orbital strike mechanic was the only real compelling part of that game and it wasn’t that great, and without a compelling link to the main game the IP alone isn’t really that impressive, and certainly not impressive enough to survive on its own away from the core game, so anything they make will have to link to EVE directly in some way or its pretty much DoA

As above, wouldn’t survive on its own and really wouldn’t be that compelling

Unless its going to have an impact in the actual main universe those resources don’t mean anything, and even then it wouldn’t be anything that would be able to massively affect the universe due to the potential for it dying due to RTS games not really being as massively popular in the MOBA era

I never played the card game itself, but i don’t remember hearing anyone saying it was anything particularly special, and unless you’re going to be able to compete on an even level with the likes of HS and MTG its really not going to go anywhere even if the game is super compelling, just look at the massive flop that was Artifact recently, that had the backing of valve and had a new and unique take on the CCG, fell over, what would lead you to believe CCP could make anything on that level and make it succeed enough to make it actually worth supporting?

Actually from what i understand they are more interested in the backend tech than the IP or the MMO, they want to be able to make games that will work on the same sort of scope as EVE does, sure they want to make sure EVE pays off that investment but they would be more than willing to just watch EVE itself burn as they would still get to keep everything else from the backend, they bought what CCP had to offer not what EVE had to offer

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Well, I’ll just assume your claim of having squandered a 2 bill $ idea is a load of crap.

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People who worked for failed dot coms and tech companies always talk about what could have been when in fact it was always ■■■■■■■■ :rofl:

“My 500,000 stock options that I took in lieu of pay were almost worth 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000… but we couldn’t get second round funding and never actually made a dime.”

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Pretty much, i mean, any idea can be worth 2 billion if you can find an idiot dumb enough to buy it off you for that price