how are you suppose to clean up fleet battles if you can’t actually find fleet battles.
fleet battles don’t have to always be pvp, nor do you have to be involved the world is in flux around players
you should only be dependant on other players enganging in combat. you should not be obligated to join a fleet, you should be able to find these things unfolding around you through scanning
Have you heard of actually engaging with other players? Find a mission runner to follow around; link up with your corp’s Incursion runners. Fleet up with a Pochven raid.
You can find content solo, but it should not be the default mode of play when it comes to large scale salvage operations. If you choose to not be part of a group, you are going to have to give up some of the benefits of said large group - like not having to scan down the places where combat is occurring. The Noctis is meant for group play, while the explo frigates excel in ninja operations. The Noctis has no need of being moved into the ninja category just so players can ignore each other.
its not about default play, it is about the agency to interact with the environment around you.
yet you can do this in a explo frig
false the noctis is intended to clean up fleet battles
you do not need ignore other players
my suggestions only increase salvager agency, allows the ship to function as intended without being involved in large groups, you salvage off of large groups, doesn’t mean you have to be in one.
I never said you could not - but again, explo frigs are meant for a different level of play than the Noctis. Which is what my full statement said. Cherry picking to quote is arguing in bad faith.
Fleet battles = group play. One ship =/= fleet. One ship vs many ships =/= fleet. Fleets are multiple ships on each side.
It really doesn’t add to player agency. ‘Player agency’ means giving a player meaningful interaction with the world. Adding a bonus to scanning does not increase player agency, because it doesn’t make the interactions more meaningful. One can already fit a probe launcher on a Noctis. Buffing it doesn’t add anything new, it only very slightly reduces the effort to engage in solo play - which would further reduce the incentives for players to group up in a multiplayer game.
Buffing solo playstyles is bad for multiplayer game design. Period.
so a ship designed to salvage fleet battles
cannot find fleet battles
because you have to be in a group
so you remove the ability to act independantly
within the salvage role
in nature some creatures are known to form relationships with other animals which salvage to survive.
however other animals do not, nor should you be obligated too a player who is not involved in a group shouldn’t be forced to join a group to salvage.
especially given that there is still no requirement to even salvage your own group, should your group become inactive you then have to join another group which only causes further problems.
why not just be able to scan down players engaging in combat. randomly in space via combat scanners.
any design which takes game play experience from a player is bad for a game experience.
I can log in
independantly i can
fight
mine
R&D
basically anything else in the game without the need of other people, just my character’s skills
but salvage no no no not allowed.
a ship is designed to do a one thing
by being able to fly this ship i should be able to perform role/function (which i cannot)
regardless of weather or not if i’m in a group, I actually cannot do this function.
you can mine other peoples moons who’s group you’re not a part of
you could do the same thing with salvaging fleet battles.
You can salvage. Even solo.
It just so happens that salvage is step 2 of the process of (1) fight to create wrecks and (2) salvage battlefield.
Create your own wrecks, fight first. Solo if you want.
then ninja salvage doesn’t exist
???
as a salvager you do not have to fight to create wrecks yourself, you can do this mysterious thing called scanning to find combat sites and mission sites, where you can warp in make a book mark and come back later.
this is what the community calls “ninja salvage”.
but truthfully this type of salvage is simply just “independant salvage” a player has had the ablity to find a site and go salvage it and come back later.
however if you’re saying that you have to create the wrecks yourself first. a large game play element of salvaging is missing
the aspect of ninja salvaging is when a player independantly is able to find salvage themselves and go and get it.
so scanning to find combat is an integral part of salvaging and actively engaging in combat yourself is not actually a requirement for the salvaging process, however given the nature of the game, running sites with drones or doing sites / missions first and coming back later is also an option.
so (as i have been relentlessly saying)
a noctis needs the ability to scan down sites independantly to keep it true to the experience of salvaging.
you should not be dependant on being in a group of other players to find wrecks, i do admit this does make it easier, but if you are a solo player and just want to salvage and make some bank for yourself, you should have the same level of functionality (if not greater) than a frigate.
the majority of people responding to this post have said
“yes, a noctis is designed for salvaging and yes its for large fleet battles”
scanning is an integral part of the process.
I have more agency in finding and actively salvaging locations without changing ship’s in an explo frigate due to the fact it has bonuses to both salvage and scanning.
and in terms of these bonuses a noctis does not compare.
but as discussed a noctis is suppose to be an improvement. it is meant to be the king of salvage
it should behave like it
as a ship it is intended to find battles and go and salvage them
yet it does not do this.
it does not fulfill its role
and as a player who gets into a ship which is meant to do this specific thing
it should do the job its suppose to do.
saying you HAVE to be involved in another group would be like saying you can only mine asteroids or shoot your guns when in a fleet. it makes no sense.
why?
because you’re taking a level of player interaction in a role they’re playing in the game AWAY from the player.
and as I have said there are examples of other combat engagements which do not happen in mission or other combat sites. if you cannot find these locations naturally you should be able to find ships engaging each other via scanning which you can then go and salvage.
A magnate has bonuses to scanning AND salvaging
but the ship which is meant to be the king of salvage has the same scan capabilities as a Rifter
which is also a frigate and by comparison worse than the magnate.
in terms of covering all the factors involved in salvaging and salvaging independantly a magnate out performs a noctis
and a noctis is meant to be the king of salvage and sould be a step up from the magnate or other such ships
and you will not change my mind on this.
In that case, good luck talking to that wall.
i’m sure that wall will actually have more useful contribution to this discussion than yourself
Most importantly, the wall doesn’t give negative feedback.
negative feed back is fine, but the wall will be able to comprehend the concept
The wall may even comprehend the concept better than you!
possibly, better get talking to the wall to find out, at least it would be intellectual
No, it does not.
Again, a Noctis can fit a probe launcher. It simply isn’t going to be as good at finding hard to scan player ships vs an exploration frigate that is specifically designed to hunt other players and strip their wrecks without being part of the engagement. Picking where to hunt for salvage becomes more important to the Noctis pilot to balance this out, but they do not lack for options.
The Noctis does not have to be the best at every possible version of salvaging to be the best overall salvager. Mathematically, when actually salvaging, the Noctis clears wrecks faster than any other ship, period, because it run the salvage action more times concurrently than any other ship, and has equal to or better salvage rates than any other ship.
Players may choose sub-optimal fits or salvage strategies, but that is not what the game it balanced around. Similarly, players may choose to try and ninja-salvage with a ship designed for large-scale clearing, even though that is suboptimal usage of a ship that takes longer to locate and travel to sites (which means less total time spent salvaging and more time spent traveling and scanning) - but that isn’t what you balance the game around.
did you even read what i posted?
I presume yes, and they disagree with it.
It is a good trait to listen to feedback, even if it is negative.
there is a difference between negative and stupid
i have listened to both of your feed back and responded to it
it is you two who are not grasping the point.
If your argument is otherwise, i apologize for misunderstanding you. I can only go off of what you have posted, after all.
The Noctis can already fit a probe launcher. It therefore has the ability to scan down ships that may be engaged in active combat to identify potential fields for salvage. What you are arguing about is already in the game and can be done with the Noctis. It simply is not bonused to be the best at doing the scanning, because different ships have different roles and the designed role of the Noctis is as a part of a group. Can it be used to do solo salvage hunting? Yes. Is it optimized for this? No. Does it need to be? No, because that detracts from the benefits of building a community in the game.
Again: balancing ships around solo playstyles is a bad design choice for an MMO because it screws up the balance for the core intended multiplayer engagement style.
This is, again, the same reason why ships like the Orca are not made to be the best miners ever - they are meant to be used in a fleet and not solo. This doesn’t stop players from using them as solo mobile mining bases, but that playstyle is not what they are designed for or balanced around. CCP isn’t going to actively seek to hurt solo play, but they absolutely do not try to buff it.
Also, please please please stop using agency incorrectly. Seriously.