Salvage Idea V2

so I posted a while ago regarding salvaging and having wrecks become automatically findable to people who are in a noctis. on some level in its conception i clearly liked this idea however looking back on it now I do see some glaring mistakes i have clearly made regarding other aspects of game play.

further more i have managed to stream line the idea down to have it so finding wrecks becomes easier.

my thinking is this.

for the noctis (which we know is a specialist salvaging ship)
could we perhaps see a bonus to “combat scanner probes” making it easier for players to scan down old combat sites and wrecks which have yet to be despawned by the game.

the noctis as it is, is slow and clunky so i don’t see how it could be massively abused by people who are scouting or doing exploration or trying to PVP other players.

if this were tied in to the bonuses given to the ship for “ORE Industrial” perhaps a 25% bonus to combat probe scan strength (making it so with good ship skills, scanning skills + implants + equipment) you could in theory gain a substancial bonus to tracking down combat sites.

this would ultimately IMHO address the issue i had regarding salvaging previously is that the other professions in the game, have the agency to operate independantly, salvagers are dependant on team work.

this would create a cross over of skilled and experienced salvagers would be able to act independantly without help where as newer characters either in NPC/Player Corps would be able to continue to ask others to salvage all while using the same ship with varying equipment based on skill level.

TLDR: to help make experienced salvagers more independant when using the Noctis please grant a bonus to combat probe scan strength to “ore industrial” skill per level.

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You can’t probe wrecks so this does absolutely nothing.

It would be better if CCP just allowed people to blue their wrecks and people can then “warp to” them in the scan screen.

Okay thats a oversight regarding scanning down wrecks but would enable salvagers independent agency to continue ninja salvaging without constantly changing ship this would mean more time out salvaging

New bros to the game could then also train and understand aspects of exploration, scanning and salvaging as exploration is about finding the games resources (relic,data sites, gas clouds and rouge asteroid belts not to mention the diamond structures)

possible expert systems available too give new bros a taste of things much like the existing high sec scanning expert system

While you cannot scan down wrecks, you can scan down the MTUs people leave near their wrecks. And while you cannot legally get their loot, you can take their salvage:

[Noctis, Noctis Ninja Salvager]

Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
10MN Afterburner II

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Salvage Tackle II
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints II

'Dunk' Salvage Drone x5

(Just a quick fit I’ve thrown together - keep in mind it has no combat capabilities so if people want to shoot you for taking their loot, you better be gone.)

nice fit, and yes i made the same blunder on this post i did my last one about scanning wrecks unfortunately I keep making this mistake as i said on my last post, thats an over sight on my end.

my thinking is more towards not only new bro’s joining the game but also veteran salvagers

naturally in EVE you take a ship which is right for the role you want to do and fit it accordingly if you go and do explo, you take a scanning ship, mining a mining ship, combat a combat ship, but salvaging if you’re not working with someone still requires you actively switch ships.

sure, you can’t scan down wrecks, but having the ability to scan down ships in combat sites and allowing players to just use one ship instead of having to stop and change every time they want a new site would provide a smoother game play experience for those who are looking for combat sites to salvage.

wrecks don’t need to be abandonded to salvage, so this is a win for all salvagers across the board. providing you can find an active site you should be good just to go in, do your thing and then move on rather than, scan site, dock up, change ship, undock, warp to location, then begin salvaging.

just a smoother experience, scan, warp, salvage, repeat.

actually i did think about this as it was similar to something i posted last time, not only could a person’s D scan be filled with wrecks, this could cause problems with other space users. yes i know there are filters for wrecks and such, but if someone came into your space and popped someone, all your fleet buddies could warp to that person’s wreck, so warping directly to a wreck might not be the best idea in the world. scanning them down should totally be a thing, however untill such a time, i personally think giving salvagers more agency to find combat sites and not have to switch ships would be definately a good step in the right direction.

Why would you need to switch ships to find salvage?

You can scan in ships that aren’t bonused for scanning.

scanning down combat sites is always easier and faster in a scanning ship, most ninja salvagers will scan down a few sites in a scan ship before switching to their salvage ship.

finding combat sites easily while in a salvage ship will again as i already stated provide a smoother game play experience for players who are salvagers.

scan, warp, salvage, repeat.

A noctis is meant for not only salvage but bulk salvage, i imagine its conception was to clean up after big fleet battles. if it can’t find wrecks then it should at least be easier to find combat sites. obviously not as good as a top of the line ship but it should have some kind of healthy bonus.

if you have a noctis and a rifter next to each other both with t2 salvage, the noctis will out perform the rifter everytime, but both have equal chance of finding a combat site based off of character skills, & equipment, the point of the noctis is to be able to salvage, part of salvaging is naturally being able to get access to salvage.

you cannot scan wrecks
so a healthy bonus to combat probe scan strength seems in order.

you can still fit up a rifter to scan and salvage but compared to a noctis, a noctis should be capable of naturally out performing it everytime based on the concept it is literally intended to handle salvaging.

the noctis by the way only has a 5% reduction in salvager duration which base is 10seconds

so you’re only looking at half a second per skill level

at ore industrial level 4 you’re looking at a 2 second reduction in duration per cycle.

the salvaging skill however grants 100% increase in chance of salvage retrieval per additional level.

so in my humble opinion the noctis needs a boost because other than its massive levels of high slots and tractor beam range and velocity

there is not much difference to fitting out a rifter with t2 arm, probes and a MWD and achieve the same result. you’re then going to the wrecks rather than pulling them in. this is something i do a lot, i also use a merlin for this, i just scan places down first because its faster and easier.

There are ships specialised in scanning and salvaging.

T1 exploration frigates (Imicus, Heron, Magnate, Probe) have bonuses to salvage cycle time, to scanning and have a huge cargo hold for a frigate. Fit a combat probe launcher and two salvagers, a bunch of salvage drones and ninja salvage away!

you’re right all these can out perform the noctis. and further has bonuses to relic and data analyzers.

these would make for great starter ships especially given that these are also targeted for use with the expert systems. ultimately all of these are better salvage ships than the noctis.

I don’t see any harm in giving the noctis a healthy bonus to core scan strength for people who are going to be salvaging for hours at a time to make their ISK

Better ‘ninja’ salvage ships.

The Noctis still outperforms them for pure salvaging a battlefield, especially one that has not been pulled together by a MTU yet, as the Noctis has more than 2 salvagers and tractor bonuses.

But if someone wants to salvage someone else’s wrecks that are gathered by their MTU, a T1 exploration frigate is pretty good.

The only ships that come close to the noctis in terms of salvage would be destroyers since you can fit 4/4 of tractor/salvager or any combo

And since noctis is omega, I often refer newbros get a destroyer to salvage

so i fly a magnate and go “man i really like this scanning and salvaging stuff, i should upgrade my ship for a bigger cargo and longer runs!”

to find that i don’t have any scan bonus and thus cannot now perform ninja salvaging
the duration in salvage is the same?

further more a noctis used to be about 50 -55 mil and now is about 100 mil (ish)

as a player it doesn’t seem worth the investment.
the noctis as a ship intended to be the cream of the crop for salvaging. to me it strikes me as hugely flawed that it grants less agency than a magnate or one of its other frigate counter parts.

So do you want players to upgrade or not? The player cannot both wanting a bigger better ship and not be willing to pay a higher price. Choose one.

Also, going bigger is not always better. Sometimes going smaller is better, especially when you want to be in something that can quicly align and warp out in case the owner of the wrecks comes.

Lastly, for a player who isn’t a newbie, it shouldn’t be hard to probe in a ship that doesn’t have scan bonuses. T3 destroyers have combat probe fitting bonuses, but have no scan bonuses. Still, they are very often used to probe down combat targets. Ventures and Prospects that want to huff gass probe their sigs without scan bonuses. I scan relic sites all the time in an interceptor. Really, scan bonuses are only needed to scan down really hard sigs, or to help a newbie without skills.

It should be part of the natural progression of the game to at least want to upgrade your ship

My point is there is no sense in upgrading if it REMOVES agency from the role your performing you just said yourself about paying more for an upgrade but the noctis doesn’t grant the same level of agency as a magnate

A noctis should be able to the same role as a magnate (so it can efficiently ninja salvage) while also having the tractor capabilities so you ca clear larger fields as is its intended design

Assuming you drive IRL would you trade your car in for one which only went half the features? Half the seats? Only took you half way to work?

Players being granted the ability to salvage but the upgrade doesn’t offer you the same agency to do your task as a frigate?

Its like these morons who cheat on their wife with the village bike, or being a millionaire and giving up all your wealth for a single chicken nugget.

If its so easy to do so much without scan bonuses lets remove scan bonuses from all ships
Doesn’t seem logical to me

Yes sometimes smaller is better, yes people down grade for less maintenance and up keep, but in eve people upgrade for efficiency, this is why t2 ships, modules and guns exist.

The noctis should have the same agency to ninja salvage sites as its frigate counter parts if not greater, the risk / reward factor here being the investment for the ship

Larger investment larger reward.

Basic MTUs have a sensor strength of 50 and a signature radius of 500. Those things are really easy to scan down. No player should require scan bonuses to scan one down, except maybe a newbie.

I’m glad the Noctis has bonuses towards it’s specialisation instead having part of it’s strength wasted in useless scan bonuses.

Anyway, a bit unrelated perhaps, but the best way I believe to buff the usefulness of the Noctis is to delete MTUs.

No one has said anything about deleting MTU’s or scanning them down i said scanning down combat sites, besides MTU’s are easy targets to scan and are very vigorously killed through out the game.

It would be awesome if you could scan down a site, warp in, salvage the site and then either start scanning another site or simply move on.
MTU’s have nothing to do with ship balance

I do find it interesting though how the noctis was in already in the game and then MTU’s are bought in, people struggled to do salvaging back then.

Guess what players really need is a noctis which grants them more agency to do their job independently and quicker, otherwise its not really worth the investment needs to at least be equal to or greater than the frigates.

Would you give a frigate greater DPS than a capital ship?