Sandbox Design Mistakes

Of course.

I just disagree it is the “bane” of EvE. As far as I know there are no reliable statements CCP is afraid about multiboxers leaving. On the contrary; a few years ago they banned the use of ISboxer and many people said it would cause a huge departure of multiboxing players, which didn’t happen.

Trend is down, it may slow, but it’s not going up yet

And so???

We are waiting for the “Turn it into a Merry Go Round” to save EVE punchline :rofl:

Or maybe “Make it like a MODERN GAME” :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

How can one turn an over 17 year old game to compete in todays market?

They pull a Firefall and look to mobile. Train/bus gamers.

The trend may well be down when compared to peak Eve, however for a 17 year old game it’s doing pretty well especially when compared to the vast majority of games that were released at the same time, most of which have been mouldering in the grave for the best part of those 17 years.

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yeah and that noob didn’t notice the obvious inverse head and shoulders pattern that will make eve player numbers go to the moon

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Yes but it’s not price action is it, it’s player numbers, those patterns are for trading action behaviours.

those rules do not apply to different domains

jokes are dead :frowning:

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You are fairly correct here. Gamers tend to interchange “open world” and “sandbox”, although the two are separate descriptions.

But it’s kinda like when gamers use “instance”, which bugs a lot of programmers because that technically is a very broad term, when they are in actuality referring to a very specific thing. “Instanced content” is better, but that can still refer to instanced content that has open or restrictive access. A better description of what gamers are trying to refer to may be “restricted access instanced content”, but that gets kinda wordy…

So same thing with EVE, it is a sandbox, and an open world. It’s at the very least a “persistent social open world sandbox”, gathering from past devs comments, but that’s pretty wordy too… :sweat_smile: So I’m ok if gamers shorthand the terms as long as we get it. However, “instance” by itself is right out… :rage: :rofl:

As far as open PvP in EVE, that can be part of any multiplayer open world concept, it’s just the devs chose to make PvP accessible in almost all spaces as part of their core design, as opposed to other open world games that restrict PvP to designated areas.

It’s CCP’s universe, it’s CCP’s sandbox, not yours.

instanced dungeon.
Because that’s literally how it is named.

This is true. IIRC, I may have brought that up long ago in another thread. But this is one time that I disagree with the consensus, I feel “dungeon” is too archaic a description, bringing up visions of walls, and Fantasy MMO’s. I am only one voice, but until something better comes along, I actually prefer @Salt_Foambreaker’s term of “instanced content”, as it’s a description that can transcend any genre of game.

EVE actually has a very good example of a restricted open instanced “dungeon”. Mission deadspaces are very restricted access if your ship is “un-probable” or cloaked. Even tho someone could possibly MWD all the way to the mission space, proving it’s not “walled” and actually open, it’s highly unlikely they’ll get there before the other player is done. Interestingly, as soon as the “un-probable” player drops an MTU, the pocket is now unrestricted, at least to players than have probes. There’s also a few other combinations of instanced content in EVE, but don’t want to make this another wall of text… :sweat_smile:

that’s irrelevant to the notion of “instanced dungeon”.

For an “instanced dungeon”, a new instance is created for each new group that wants to use it.
That MEANS that NO other group can access that instance. It’s instanced per group entering it.

Even if nobody can join the area, it’s not enough to make it “instanced”. You NEED a new instance to be created to make that content/dungeon “instanced”.
So the only instanced dungeons in Eve are in the abyss. All other dungeons are just instances of shared dungeons.

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From what evidence we have, Abyss may actually be an existing system, you can supposedly see it on the map, with the only access being the filament, and just the system’s content being reset. Mission pockets are instanced upon acceptance, and could be made completely inaccessible by making a unique key and putting a force field around it or such.

Also, I remember in old MMO’s, an instance dungeon can be created for a group, and even after they entered, they could invite new members to the group granting them access as well, so whether that instance was created for only the original group was irrelevant if new people could enter later.

That’s why I’m saying the term dungeon is outdated, it doesn’t matter how or where or when the instance is created programmatically. The only thing that really matters about it to gamers is access, and who has it, which is what I think you are also saying.

Abyssal content made pieces of me :frowning:

Again, it’s unrelated.

What is instanced is the DUNGEON, not the system.
The dungeon is the area of space where your rats are entrapped.

LEARN TO READ.
THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT INSTANCED.
And no, the mission are not “instanced”, they are “created” on acceptance.

unrelated. It’s still created for each new group that want to access it.
And no, if another group can join later it’s not more instanced content - unless the other group has less way to act.

unrelated. The term dungeon is totally adequate both with the idea of mmos and the technical terms.

No it’s not. What the OP was saying, is specifically about instantiation per group. While I don’t agree with him, if you can’t understand that simple term, you are off-topic.

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Wait. Do you not understand what instancing is in programming terms? Instancing is the allocation and initializing of memory based on a template like an object class and/or loaded from a file. So anything that is instanced is effectively new and created at that moment from when it was called, but can be reused or recycled from then on. I thought we were on the same page, but, at this time I have no idea what definition you are using for “instanced”, so we will have no agreement until that is settled.

LOL OMG, you blast her and you are WRONG.

You are taking about Instantiation. A variable is instantiated.

Lrn2Code before you run your mouth!

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“In object -oriented programming (OOP), an instance is a concrete occurrence of any object , existing usually during the runtime of a computer program . … An object is an instance of a class, and may be called a class instance or class object ; instantiation is then also known as construction.”

No, I am right.

No, you used a verb, instancing, which is wrong.

Either way, since the topic is GAME DESIGN not OOP, you are using the wrong definition,

Your credibility = zero.