Seeking Spiritual and Religious Advocates (UPDATE: YC120.01.12)


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I would think the same issue would rear its ugly head with the Khanid as well honestly.


If that is the concern, you’re pretty much going in the wrong direction. A few more steps and you’re in Sani Sabik territory. The baseline Rite is pretty barbaric and abominable in the way it’s currently practiced and preached, but the Khanid path strips all the wrong things out of it, when it comes to how it clashes with civilized morality and ethics.

If you want a neutral place for co-mingling of faiths and spirituality, I’d be a bit less concerned with specific examples and rather work up a universal set of rules and procedures to ensure civil discourse and sharing across the lines. Trying to pick “compatible” sets, lumping them together and seeing what happens is a recipe for disaster, especially without an already pre-existing deep understanding of all the components.

My recommendation would be a structured exchange format, moderated by appointed, accepted neutral parties and procedures for pulling back and then getting the exchange back on the rails whenever things clash in incompatible ways. Probably several formats in fact, allowing for different numbers of parties in the exchange.


Fair advice. Thank you, Madam Del’thul. I will work on that over the course of the next several days, then.


If you need an advocate for Traditional Wayism, then I am willing to be of service.


Uh … sure. Arguably, you have us covered already by covering the Way of the Winds, which recognizes us as practicing the same faith by a different name.

I don’t think it’s quite the same, though.

“Achura,” whether as a nation or religion, typically refers to the rural population of our home planet, which we call by that same name. (The cities are culturally, and religiously, Caldari.) Our beliefs are pretty diverse, ranging from animism to a sort of monist spiritual skepticism, but we still see ourselves as a single people and single faith, sometimes called the “thousand sects,” which actually is probably an underestimate. We’re lead by a council of monks from various sects called the Elder Visionaries.

I’ve spoken a little bit about our culture and beliefs here.

If you’re worried about contention, sir, a collection of believers like this might be troublesome. Even ordinarily very peaceful believers can become upset over religious differences-- and what you’re arranging is going to be full of religious differences. Achur monks bicker over doctrine all the time, and we’re all part of the same faith. Imagine what it’ll be like with so many.

Also, aside from Miz’s remarks, Amarr is probably the single largest and widest-spread faith in the cluster. If you’re going to try to represent the various faiths, you’re kind of going to be making a large and actually rather provoking statement if you leave them out. Ironically, you’d be lending support to the Empire’s most militant elements by implying that the Imperial Rite can’t be treated like a civilized religion.


The true Amarrian faith is the will of god, it is the foundation of any great civilization. You would exclude us in fear that the faithful would strike at the throats of these new-age faiths?

You are wrong, it is true these other faiths were created by misguided souls, but we faithful are civilized and capable of remaining so in the presence of heathens.

I am in the process of formulating a set of strict rules and policies that will include all faiths without the assumption of misbehavior. It was wrong of me to generalize and assume that a conflict would happen to begin with. I ask for a level of patience, in the meantime.


A wise choice.

I’ll be following this project with interest. My mother, while living, was a practicing Khanid Orthadox while my father was a strict Wayist.


I’ll help out as much as I can on the Khanid interpretation of Scripture, but I haven’t practiced it… ‘religiously’ for a while.


It depends, I think, on whether said faiths have a history of being proselytising faiths. The trick is to avoid someone who intends to use this as an opportunity to convert the other participants.


I have constructed an initial draft and decided to allow the members of the Intergalactic Summit to view it. Feel free to openly discuss and provide constructive criticism on any potential conflicts.

The name of the structure - which we believe will be an ‘Astrahus’, based on current needs - will be ‘Habor Holistic’, to better illustrate the atmosphere we wish to create.

I appreciate the recommendation of calling the structure ‘Not Property of Amarr, For Now’, but I believe this is incendiary, if merely by consequence.


What is the purpose of forcing patrons to accept religious freedom in order to participate? This would, in fact, be your project actually forcing its beliefs on others. By all means institute policies to prevent outbreaks of violence, but what you have written so far goes quite beyond that. As they stand now, you’ve “technically” opened the project to Amarr, but then refused it again under the principles.


Madam Kernher, the Amarr are welcome within the halls of the Harbor Holistic and are welcome to convert others as they see fit… but they are under no guarantee of success, and therein must accept the wayward souls (as it were) are afforded the same degree of sanctuary as the Amarr. Perhaps ‘accept’ is not the right word, so much as ‘tolerate’. If the Amarr cannot afford even that for the duration of their stay, then there is not much that can be done, as all patrons - not just Amarr - are permitted the same unalienable rights.

EDIT: Understand that to do otherwise would be favoritism toward the Amarr faith. Something we intend to avoid.

ADDITIONAL EDIT: Also understand that the fifth principle most applies here: Refrain confusion of tolerance and validation.


I was opposed to terms like “recognize the right”, “accept the liberty to uphold”, or “refrain from the belief”. That language to me demands someone believe a certain thing, rather than just avoiding uncivilized discourse or overt coercion.

I, as a member of the Rite, can certainly recognize that someone upholds another religious opinion or form of worship, and refrain from acting in a disruptive way because of their belief, but the Imperial Rite does not recognize any “unalienable right or liberty” to uphold alternative religions and it’d be disingenuous for a follower of the Rite to agree to do so. Nor can I speak of the Rite without also belief in and intent to convince others to convert – that is endemic to the Reclaiming, which is a core part of the Rite.

Simply, the language as written implies validation, to me, rather than tolerance. I cannot, as a member of the Imperial Rite, agree that there is a right to other beliefs. I can only agree not to act in a way contrary to civilized discourse against followers of other faiths on account of those beliefs.




This a genuinely interesting idea, particularly (from my perspective) if it also allowed people who know relatively little about New Eden’s diverse spiritual practices to learn, rather than being a talking shop for experts only.

‘Cats in a Bag’ might be a more suitable name, sadly, but I suppose that’s inevitable and, possibly, part of the whole point.


As I have previously stated, the fifth principle of our mission statement is to refrain confusion of tolerance with validation. The subsequent amendments, apart from being in a rough-draft form, are subsidiary to The Grand Principles and cannot override them. Instead, the amendments are meant to further clarify and narrow their definition on a case-by-case basis.

That said, if you’ve a suggestion for better wording, I would be happy to hear it.


I offer myself as a more suitable representative of Khanid Amarr. I see offers from lapsed people, accounts of dead people, and people being wretched about the Kingdom, as usual. Ugh. Always you lot do this. It is DEPRESSING!

At any rate, I feel that in this context I may be a proper authority for you, though I specify naturally that my only authority is as a commoner who is only a proud and natural citizen of the Kingdom, a daughter of its water and soil, and a lifelong celebrant of the Rite.

I can state with this authority already that even my brothers and sisters in the Rite are breathtakingly rude about the entire Kingdom and its practices at every chance they get. Pfff.