[SERIOUS] How would you re-design Highsec if you could?

(Omnathious Deninard) #161

But wouldn’t the undesired Infamy be better suited to the character who performed the criminal act rather than a artificial limitation on ship numbers?

(Remiel Pollard) #162

Sure, probably. I’m just explaining the way Elite does it and why. The option to tie bounties to players instead of ships is probably more viable for EVE, but I’m sure given time and effort, i’d figure out how to make tying it to ships work. I prefer it that way tbh, it makes ships more valuable, and it makes players think twice about what they’re going to use to commit criminal acts. Tie it just to the player, and they have no reason to ship down for ezpz stuff.

(Savoycabbage) #163

Ok, I’m going to make a distinction here between a “noob” and a “newbie/new player”. I’ve seen this definition before so I hope it’s not objectionable.

A newbie/new player is someone who is, by definition, new to the game and therefore doesn’t fully understand the mechanics. I’m all for “protection” (to a very limited extent) of new players to allow themselves to become accustomed to the game mechanics.

A noob is someone who either does or should know the mechanics of the game, but ignores them or makes a mistake which costs them a ship/kill/isk. Jita scams, for example, are made for these people, not for new players. Players who dick around on the undock take advantage of these people, as do ninja salvagers. This isn’t new players who are generally taken advantage of, it’s people who should know better. New players, unless they have more RL money than sense, don’t have the isk to fall for a jita scam. This is why “noob” is used as a pejorative and “newbie” isn’t.

Yes, wardecs mostly take advantage of the “noob” rather than the “newbie”. To be honest, if you are flying your 1bil incursion vindicator, or even much cheaper ships through a trade pipe when at war, you’re kind of asking to be dropped on. This isn’t through bad luck or griefing, it’s through incredibly poor judgement. I’ll be perfectly honest here, there is no excuse for any player in a large nullsec alliance to lose anything larger than an interceptor to a wardec. Everyone knows that there are logistics systems in place to make sure that this doesn’t happen. Like I said earlier, it’s laziness or just pure stupidity that keeps us in business. Take away the kills we have against the major NS alliances and you pretty much dry up the content for wardec groups.

Also - players who “have no clue how to play the game” are always preyed upon in every single online multiplayer game there is. Eve is a terrible game played by terrible people and probably has one of the hardest learning curves possible in an MMO (cue ancient meme here). If players are leaving the game because they aren’t very good and are losing too many ships after 90 days playing, it might just be that this isn’t the game for them. And that’s ok. Some games just aren’t for some people and Eve is very very niche in that respect.

Finally, there is clear recourse for anyone who gets camped into station by wardeccers - leave corp. Simple. Problem solved. The problem is that these players don’t like that they can be camped into a station like this. Like I said above - probably not the game for them. There is no way out if it happens in low or nullsec. At least in hisec there is a way out.

(Whitehound) #164

We all know how much this game teaches us, even after years. To claim 90 day olds aren’t noobs is only self-serving. But do as you please. You don’t need my agreeing with you, do you? :slightly_smiling_face:

(Savoycabbage) #165

See my above post about the difference between a “noob” and a "newbie :slight_smile:

Agreement is not what I’m after. A difference of opinion isn’t a problem for me. I love a good debate, but I don’t like incorrect information that’s been debunked being perpetuated. Too many people throw around the argument of “oh, but new players” when talking around wardecs and it just doesn’t hold water.

Maybe I’m placing too much faith in people, but I consider a 90day old character to have enough about them to be able to work out where they need to know more, and then to able to work out how to get that information. I know that after 90 days in eve I didn’t know very much, but I joined EVE Uni because I didn’t know enough.

I’ve said before that CCP could do with signposting new players to newbie friendly corps such as KarmaFleet, Pandemic Horde or EVE Uni where they can learn what the tutorial won’t teach you.

(Remiel Pollard) #166

I live in lowsec. To me, everyone that enters is fair game. Whether they’re a noob or a newb or anything in between is irrelevant. As far as I’m concerned, if you’re taking the “I accept the risk” option of the pop-up that warns you of the risk the first time you enter lowsec, you’ll never be noob/newb enough to get out of being shot at, and probably violently murdered.

(Ildrara) #167

I disagree.


Having any kind of C&P system like Elite would pretty much destroy EVE. Ganking would reign supreme and there would be no way to stop them. I kill people when I play Elite. I have no worries of losing. I have so much cash I could lose my blinged ships hundreds of times and still not feel loss. There is no drawbacks to someone that has maxed out their character and chosen the griefing life (other than combat loggers). I don’t want that in EVE.

I think a game based around Elite gameplay and Eve rules/everyone on the same server would be the best game ever. Sadly that will never happen.

(Saeger1737) #168

@gnshadowninja I was meaning the full 15 minute period since you inject yourself into someone else’s conflict

(gnshadowninja) #169

Ah I see, it’s not a bad idea as I get so fed up of suspects being able to loot and dock instantly.

I think 15 minutes is too long though as this would effect low sec players meaning as soon as they go suspect they cant jump into any other systems for 15 minutes.

(Marcus Luttrell Khan) #170

I do like the idea of suspect looters not being able to dock for a minute or so. Any more than that is excessive.

(Marcus Luttrell Khan) #171

The issue with this is that all the bump-ees have to do is stall. That is stupid. I would want to be able to ransom them.

(Ildrara) #172

So is interrupting someone’s game play that you have no intention of killing.

■■■■ or get off the pot.

(Dom Arkaral) #173

Usually people that are bumped are ransomed or killed, or have stuff stolen from them cough

(Saeger1737) #174

Make a sec think highsec 10 minute timer , lowsec 3 minutes

The more the risk the less the time,

(Marcus Luttrell Khan) #175

That is a perfectly viable option. In fact that is one of the purposes of bumping, especially for botters. Content denial is a perfectly good tactic.

(Nevyn Auscent) #176

Content denial is a terrible thing for a game to have. It results in people not playing the game which leads to game death.

Now yes. you should be able to gank and harass (in the sense of sneaky raids etc not the abusive harass) people but not by denying them the ability to play the game for hours.

CCP need to rethink what ganking/piracy should look like and create a gameplay that is more engaging for both sides. Faster gameplay for bumping or whatever replaces bumping. Slower gameplay for ganks to allow player skill and support ships to matter more. And yes, that would include Concord taking longer to respond obviously.

(Dom Arkaral) #177

is a valid strategy, just like blockades and economic sanctions are viable irl :wink:

(Remiel Pollard) #178

I’m not going to post a link to another gaming forum. I wouldn’t post one to here from there, and I won’t post one to there from here. You’re more than welcome to go and see for yourself. It’s been sitting high on the Dangerous Discussion section of the forums for a few days now, a post about Sandro Sammarco revealing statistics of online play.

You keep forgetting that I’m not suggesting a direct copy of Elite, and I did not leave out the fact that considerations have to be taken for it to work in EVE, but the ultimate objective is the removal of Magic Space Police that are the single most antithetical thing to the otherwise ancap nature of EVE.

(Remiel Pollard) #179

No one is being denied gameplay, Nevyn. This is a PVP game. If people are logging off because they’re ‘blockaded’, then they’re making the choice to do so when they have other options, not the least of which is crushing the people that are antagonising them. No one makes anyone click the ‘log off’ button. Don’t be so absurd.

As for ‘content denial’, welcome to EVE, that’s how PVP works. Sooner or later, something that you want to do is going to come into conflict with something that someone else wants to do, and someone, you or them, is going to be denied that content. That’s the nature of PVP. Every 6/10 I run in lowsec denies someone else the opportunity. Every time someone else runs one, I’m denied. It’s that simple.

(Ildrara) #180

So many considerations that it wouldn’t resemble elite at all. I have been wanted there for months now. But there I am…impervious to punishment and able to kill most anyone.

I wouldn’t mind an overhaul to what we have now. But anything done would have to be thought out beyond “do it the way this other game does it…with concessions”