Or maybe Mr Worf is looking at their intel gathered over the decades of running into the same fits. Fleet Doctrines rarely change ya know…
lol, seriously this thread is a joke:
- The trammies that are whining to have the suspect timer wouldn’t do anything to the suspect anyway because the are trammies
- Flagging the scanner still won’t prevent you from being ganked 10v1 2 jumps later (which is the real whine the trammies are trying to avoid)
- Flagging the scanner still won’t fix your real problem: no friends
LOL. Made my day. You have no argument except to call people names. I bet that works in the playground. And wins you loads of friends. LOL
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The cargo scanner deserves a player using it going suspect. It will create more content.
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It won’t stop people using it, and will maybe reduce when it is used. I.e more strategically.
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Reply with a logical argument, without slang, and I might not laugh. And your friends might not laugh either.
The real argument is it is harmless and therefore gives no timer.
Already have many times, your troll alt just trolls real points.
It was just a dumb idea, if you want to be safe make friends and don’t expect to be safe flying solo.
That turns out not to be the case. Passive sonar is a thing. BTW, I used to teach ASW.
passive sonar is not a scanner.
How often did you make zero noise to listen to things in the water that were making no noise?
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Qia “Walls of Text” Kare says:
It could be argued that Knights, in chess, should be able to move in any direction or distance, since real knights can. Also reasonable, real life castles can’t move at all, so neither should they in chess. We could continue to dismantle the rules of chess with our unbridled application of logic for as long as we wished, having forgotten it was a game and that the illogical rules are what made it what it was.
What particles do or don’t come out of the imaginary modules on the imaginary ships that hit the other imaginary ships is immaterial. Only the in game effect, the transmission of the contents of the cargo of the target ship if you have the module and meet the requirements to activate it, matters at all. The technobabble is used to explain how this occurs as flavor only. A dash of spice on our virtual space lives to make it more immersive.
Personally, I believe the game balance is best served by leaving scanners to do what they do unhindered. I believe that their function is to make overloading ships with too much valuable cargo more risky, as I believe it should be.
The target of a cargo scanner doesn’t lose any EHP. His ship doesn’t slow down, he can enter warp as normal, target his weapons and fire them as normal, and otherwise do everything he could do prior to being scanned. Passively scan one of two ships in the same position at the same time, and it would be impossible to determine which was scanned by either ship, or any outside observer, because the properties of the targeted ship were not changed in any way for any length of time. When people say the target ship was ‘not affected’, this is what they mean. Not that the module has ‘no effect’.
The only argument worth engaging with that I can see is the allegation that it would generate more content. I am highly skeptical that this would be the case, but I could not say definitively, so I am willing to let this stand as a plausible (albeit unlikely) upside.
My concern is that the rules of the game should promote healthy game play, and I think taking pilots to task for making poor decisions with their freighter cargo value is healthy.
I also think that the people would be disinclined to engage scouts with active game play. Scouts are cheap enough to be disposable, and shooting them in the first place is almost hypocritical because it’s ‘shooting ships that can’t shoot back’. If folks are willing to drop to this level, just gank the scout, or better yet, team up and gank a bumping Machariel. Sigfried Cohenburg (sorry if I spelled the name wrong) sometimes bumps for a half hour or more. Plenty of time to grab some ships and do something that would make a difference, if a difference is what a person wants to make.
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Agreed. But we don’t have passive cargo/ship scanners. We do have targeted cargo scanners which are easily bypassed by a process called double wrapping. I do not consider that an intended game mechanic. A Benefit gained for a risk taken at a cost. It is not a risk to double wrap anything. It does negate a benefit of the cargo scanner which is a benefit and the cost of doing such is merely the process that it required to create.
So if we want to add risk back into the equation to balance the formula then we either make cargo scanning actually passive or we improve it’s targeted nature. I do not think a single person would agree to making it passive with the benefit of it merely listening. Even if it’s listening for specific bits of information it would only indicate the presence or absence of said object. 3 ships warp in it’s a pot luck guessing game which contains anything. Fly alone and you’re the one at fault.
I do not see a single ganking group willing to accept they might be shooting at a target with nothing in it but the pilot who you zkillboard to find used to carry the most expensive stuff. So I would rather give the player who’s taking the risk of being shot at with his suspicious scanning (that normally only the factions do) more information or better ability to scan since that is their intended objective.
As it stands right now we have multiple unbalanced benefit/risk/cost pieces of the core game mechanic.
http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=mrKLLpPMpRI&p=n#/45;51
CCP said it first.
So wait.
It takes two or three modules to scan a ship.
The Passive Targeter which allows a ship to target another ship without being detected.
The Cargo Scanner which requires that you be visible and target the ship or use the Passive Targeter. The Cargo Scanner also has other uses.
The Ship Scanner which requires that you be visible and target the ship or use the Passive Targeter. The Ship Scanner also has other uses.
Specifically which of these modules are you trying to nerf?
Nerf none. I don’t see a single corp that will accept a nerf.
It takes merely one out of two variations. You either scan the ship fitting or the cargo. The information you gain is based on the version you use at a risk that you might draw fire for using them on a target.
The specific piece of “target the ship” does not change with use of passive targeting module. The passive targeting is merely not alerting the target you have locked it’s position and movements within space. Nothing more. Used alone it does the same thing regardless of your intent. Your words confirm this.
The Cargo scanner (regardless of target used on) is a suspicious action. Any target it is used on you are actively trying to get to signal back it’s contents. To me it does not matter how you use it. Merely that you use it on a target. We have already gone to death and back on how “target” is the keyword.
Passive scans do not have a target. They listen.
Targeted scans have (by requirement) a target. They do not listen or they would not gather information on things which do not produce signals.
I still think they should cause suspect, aggro timer and cost 10 mil+ 
There is nothing preventing you from manipulating the market so that the ship and cargo scanners cost 10 million isk each. That is your option to achieve at the risk you might just encourage people to build them on their own for the cost of whatever amount of ISK you dump into making your goal a reality.
Feel free.
Misread:D
There is nothing of interest in the water that does not make noise.
On balance, the same could be said for a spotter. If going suspect for cargo scanning one would need more skill in selecting targets to scan.
You could be describing bumping, which is off topic. You could also be describing an intosis link or station siphon. But still, you are only describing the physical principle of the causing suspect timers, and not the broader principle of trespass, inherent in the core of many laws.
I agree some teamwork is needed. And someone who is good at math. For example, take the number of people who have been ganked/bumped/salted passing through a gank area. From this take a small percentage of profit, to form an alliance, pay for mercs, skill inject some alt. Then gank everyone who sits on a gate.
I support the use of a ship/cargo scanner getting the user a suspect timer.
This would create new gameplay in that ship escorting would become more of a thing. A freighter, for instance could have an escort not just to web it along but also for protection. If nobody scans the freighter, no problem. If someone does, well the escort should have some loaded weapons mounted. . .
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Please vote.
- Scanning a ship gives you suspect timer
- Scanning a ship does not give you a suspect timer
- I don’t care
0
voters
After 483 posts we are having a poll?
lol
Risk and Reward? What reward?