Ship Disruption Factor, Jump Factor, and Time to Jump Idea

[Shirona_C]

Before we get into it its a Touchy Subject so i opted to use a forum alt this time:

Prelude:
What i see a lot of people say is driving a standstill in EvE is the proliferation of the supercapital and capital umbrella ( in addition to subcaps being worthless in many cap fights but that’s another factor entirely ) or the lack of reason to kick down a sandbox, again another topic.

so truthfully my idea I’ve seen posted before as a “jump drive spool up” time. Except this time i did some math and came up with an equation to calculate it. which i’m looking to critique and balance, i think these numbers are reasonable but we’ll see i’d like some other peoples input.

This formula uses the Mass of the ship and distance traveled as the two most important factors in calculation, heavier ships will take longer to spool up going further while lighter ships travelling shorter distances can jump significantly faster. ( this goes both ways with Lighter ships still jumping faster further and heavy ships still take longer even over somewhat short ranges)

The Formula is:
Mass x “Spool Factor” = Ship’s Disruption Factor [Abbreviated SDF]

SDF x Distance in LY = Ships “Jump Factor” [Abbreviated JF, which is probably a bad idea since it now shares the acronym with Jump Freighters so for the sake of simplicity i wont calculate those here]

JF / 20 = Time in Minutes until the ship is ready to Jump
(Call it calculations and Drive spool up time for Lore Purposes if you like)

Spool Factor Number used in these calculations is “0.0000000025”

I came up with this number after a few early trial and errors that resulted in 245m wait times to jump max range, obviously unacceptable this number seems to consistently give reasonable times to jump so i stuck with it.

in addition the 20 that Jump Factor is divided by is a variable of my own creation and freely changed, i don’t even know what to call it once again it just gave reasonable times. Maybe a skill where every level increases from base of 0 by 4 each level so at level 5 you get that 20 again its just a variable.

Now on to the results

Following this math i’ll display the results below:
Archon: Mass = 1,260,000,000kg
1,260,000,000 x 0.0000000025
Archon SDF = 3.15 ( This is before any Fit or Cargo which if EVE Calculates these would add to the mass )
3.15 x 7 = 22.05
Archon JF = 22.05
22.05 / 20 = 1.1025
Archon JFCT = 1.1025

Actual time in seconds = 66.15 seconds (server would round down to 66 Seconds to Jump 7LY )

This means that an Archon in space must initiate a jump and then wait 66 seconds before jumping to its cyno 7 Light years away.
This would give any fleet being attacked 66 seconds to react to a cyno going up before an archon lands on grid from max range away.

Now lets try a titan.

Avatar ( Heaviest Titan )
2,400,000,000 x 0.0000000025 = 6
Avatar SDF = 6
6 x 6 (max jump) = 36
Avatar JF = 36
36 / 20 =1.8
Avatar JFCT = 1.8
This means an avatar would take 108 Seconds to Jump its Max range of 6Ly before any fit calculated.

On the opposite side this means a fleet has almost 2 minutes to deal with a cyno before the avatar is capable of getting to grid from its max jump range.

What would this lead to? Even in small gang warfare 2 minutes can be a long time to kill a target sitting still in space. so for fleets intending to drop an avatar ( without a fit? RIP) they would require a ship with enough EHP or rep, or logi to keep that ship alive for 108 Seconds to bring in the cavalry.

On the other side of this it would also mean if you knew a hostile staging system you could in theory block them from jumping out by managing to tackle or dictor them during their drive spool up times. resetting the time waited, and consuming the fuel ( or not debate below )

This means the supercapital umbrella can be mitigated with proper planning, leading to more fun and engaging content for factions who dont have the capabilities to fight when supers are dropped, while also making it much more dangerous to commit supers to a fight you dont know your 100% going to win. As to evacuate your supers (well Naked Avatars) would still need to sit for 108 Seconds to Jump out to safety.

This jump time for the record is less for actual supercarriers as they weigh substantially less.

Now for BLOPS!
Widow 151,100,000kg
151,100,000 x 0.0000000025 = .37775
Widow SDF = .37775
.37775 x 8 = 3.022
Widow JF = 3.022
3.022 / 20 = 0.1511
Widow JFCT = 0.1511

This means the widow would only take 9.066 (rounded down to 9) seconds to Jump 8 LY
I considered this reasonable given Black ops jump primarily to covert cynos, and recons cruisers, bombers, and covert ops frigates sustain substantially less tank than say a battleship with a cyno being used to jump an avatar as such they cant afford to wait nearly 2 minutes for support. However in order to drop capital support ( FAX ) you need to light a new regular cyno and wait for them to arrive, so don’t bite off more than you can chew, or hope they don’t get support first, i know firsthand how squishy a BLOPS is.

I would also argue that these factors should apply to bridges, meaning a titan opening a bridge to bring in a support fleet has to calculate the distance its sending the support fleet, though i don’t know if that should be based on the mass of the titan or the ships its sending through. I’d argue for the 2nd option personally again its up for debate. and the math is available to see how it plays out.

Let me know what everyone thinks!
Disclaimer: I’m usually bad at math but i double checked my work, if there’s an error let me know and ill edit as necessary

[Shirona_C]

In the Archon math above i accidently posted the number as 3.15 x 7 = 3.15 this is meant to read 22.05

[Salt_Foambreaker]

Well, for starters players working together to form an umbrella is not a bad thing, that is exactly what they should be doing in sov to defend “their space”. So nerfing the umbrella is automatically a bad thing.

Teamwork is the point, not the problem.

They should just remove non-covert cynos from low sec and be done with it.

-1

[Shirona_C]

Thanks for the input, the only problem i have with that however is that conversely means there’s no way to move jump freighters by drive into low sec, which chokes some travel routes, and punishes low sec corporations and alliances who would run their own freighter lines. Sure jump freighters travelling by gate is a nice theory for PVP, but also how would you balance any corporations who already have supers in low sec? Now you cant bring dreads or your own capitals to fight which gives them de-facto control of a system. But again that too is another topic

either way thanks again for the input.

[Christopher_Mabata]

So to clarify the equation should read something like:
(Mass x 0.0000000025)X Distance in LY)/20 = Time to Jump in minutes?
where the 20 = Jump Calculation V ? ( or some other skill)

[Shirona_C]

Yes I believe so, so using the same equation an Avatar jumping only 1 LY could still arrive on grid 18 seconds later. effectively nerfing supercapital and capital umbrellas on their outside edges but keeping them very formidable closer to their hub.

Could even open up an entire meta game of finding the holes where the umbrella’s are the weakest and exploiting them to force the enemy to shuffle their cap fleets around periodically.

Add jump fatigue and you have a decent nerf to force projection.

[Bronson_Hughes]

Ark: Mass = 900,000,000kg
900,000,000 x 0.0000000025
Ark SDF = 2.25 ( This is before any Fit or Cargo which if EVE Calculates these would add to the mass )
2.25 x 10 = 22.5
Ark JF = 22.5
22.5 / 20 = 1.1025
Ark JFCT = 1.125

So for a jump freighter to make a max range jump of 10 light years, it would need to be sitting in space, vulnerable, for 67.5 (68 in practice) seconds.

Okay, so this is a non-combat ship, so maybe it should get the same 90% reduction to jump drive spool up time, so it would only need 6.75 seconds (7 seconds in practice). That’s not too bad, right?

Wrong.

Have you seen the videos of supercarriers one-shotting jump freighters as they undock to jump to a cyno under current “no delay” mechanics? Not to mention how easy they would be to HIC tackle given that subcaps can basically insta-lock them. This change would basically obsolete jump freighters in losec and make them harder to use in null as well.

Also…what happens to the jumping ship while it’s waiting for its drive to spool up? Can it still use its modules and drones/fighters? Can it still be remote repped (assuming it could be otherwise)? Does the cap for jumping drain immediately once the ship orders the jump command, immediately once the ship actually jumps, or does it drain uniformly over the spool-up time? If someone tackles it while the drive is spooling up does that cancel the jump? There’s still a lot of unanswered questions here.

You have to remember that jump drives are used to exit combat as well, it’s not just about hotdropping.

Hard no to this. I can sympathize to an extent with you trying to deter jump drive power projection, but this proposal is focused entirely on the the exit of the jump; not enough thought was given to the entrance to the jump.

SIDE NOTE: Always round time up to the nearest second in EvE. The servers operate on one second “ticks”, so anything happening in between those ticks really happens on the next one. As far as EvE is concerned, if something takes 1.001 seconds or 1.999 seconds, they both take 2 seconds in practice.