Ship fitting idea

Who is painting who with a broad-stroked brush now? Believe it or not, I’m starting to warm up to you. Still am, in fact. I’m starting to respect you enough to the point of being honest enough to tell you that I don’t take this proposal seriously enough to give it 100%. I take it seriously enough to put some effort into it - that is, it is not my intention to simply smear you or the proposal. Don’t expect me to give you a 20-page counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-point, because I’m not going to. I’m going to take a sewing needle, and I’m going to poke the balloon, and I’m going to let all the air out. That’s all I’m going to do, because 1. that’s all I care to do and 2. that’s all it takes.

It’s interesting that you say this because in real life I’m a learning specialist and have a background in computer science (and several other backgrounds I won’t go into), so I’m all-too-familiar with logic and rhetoric and rules of argumentation. “Having made ignorance my profession” - I should pin this somewhere.

Just because I don’t care enough to give it my all doesn’t mean I’m ignorant, just saying. Stop talking about world government corruption, it’s just a game, and my caring-factor here is not extrapolated elsewhere. In debate, we call this “slippery slope”.

I didn’t speak on his behalf. I pinged him as a prior participant of this thread to speak TO him not FOR him. Don’t take that out of context. This is one of those ZING!ers that earns you no points on the debate stage.

Oh, and anecdotal evidence (that ONE guy!!!) doesn’t count for horse ■■■■ unless you’re trying to prove the existence of something, or something trivial like that.

Damn, better put down all those mathematics computer programs I’ve written and mathematical software I’ve worked with and better stop tutoring computer science and calculus and discrete mathematics and grad students. Maybe I should get my math-savvy paper unpublished, too, from an academic journal.

I might as well also put away all the fitting modeling and theorycrafting I’ve done for EVE, as well as the custom fitting tools I made for myself. Oh, and I need to take down my EVE Standings Effort Calculator and Change Caculators since they use calculus and I can’t math.

First of all, I didn’t say that it was a foolish fit, I said it was a bad fit. Bad as opposed to good, which are relative terms (as in there are better alternatives the said fit relative to cost and skill levels), as opposed to “sufficient”, which is a more absolute standard (or at least relative to “getting it done”). 150mm Scram Atron is sufficient - is it good relative to alternatives with comparable costs and skill requirements? Falls short by a wide margin.

Second of all, I didn’t make that “less merit” statement at the Atron, I made it at your idea. I’m starting to think you’re taking things out of context on purpose.

You’ve demonstrated that the idea works, yes, I will not take that away from you. Not once did I say your idea doesn’t work. What I have said, however, is that your idea is not better than the status quo - rather, it is significantly, categorically inferior.

Do not take this as a personal attack

Yes, your idea is as appetizing as a plate of horse ■■■■, but that commentary only applies to your idea, not to you. Don’t take it personally.

If EVE was implemented the way you are proposing it, and one day someone wrote a thread saying “hey, instead of having three different CPU/PG pools, maybe we should have just one and it could be shared between the three lots” - then that would be a significant improvement to the game in a very, very, very, very, very great many respects (would you like me to enumerate them all? it would be a very long list and I don’t feel like doing that much typing) in addition to making the game simpler (both as a player experience and code-wise), and CCP would jump on that and code EVE into the way it is now as a major upgrade.

It’s fascinating that you’re pushing this because this is in the complete and total opposite direction that is going in real life IT and Engineering. In IT and Engineering, systems are gearing up for scalability and elasticity so that resources can be pooled, dynamically allocated, and deallocated as needed. Separate systems with their own unshared resource pools are prone to underutilization or overutilization (PG/CPU isn’t allowed to be overutilized in EVE, obviously, excluding use of fitting enhancements), both of which are problematic - having a single resource pool as is the case with existing technology on Earth and in New Eden (yay for Lore!) is the smart way of doing things. It makes systems easier to manage, efficient, more cost effective, easier to design and build and grow.

In real life, would you rather have three weak systems that cannot pool resources, or one strong system with the combined resources? (Single point of failure and concurrency do not apply in this context.) The winner is clear.

@Wanda_Fayne plz halp

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Ok I’ll do this in simple terms.

  1. If I want a 50MN Punisher, I AM GOING TO DO IT.
  2. If I want to armor tank my Drake and put rockets and salvagers with hull reps, I AM GOING TO DO IT.
  3. If I fly Minmatar, I want to choose between armor or shield. Or bulkheads. Or all three. With rockets, lasers, artillery and tractor beams.

I WILL NOT BE PIDGEONHOLED into narrow thinking of how any ship is supposed to be fit or used.
Rather than ISK my way into a pre-determined set of optimized setups, I WANT FREEDOM to use CPU and PG in whichever slot suits me.

That is a sandbox game.

joker3

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Try telling that to CCP.

Oh right, it’s their game and they’ll do with it however they please…

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Easiest example that the OP would understand is the Caldari Navy Hookbill.
Armor fits, dual-web, sensor damps, rockets/missiles…there are so many variations in this one frigate alone.
Without the ability to access the pool of CPU/PG this wouldn’t happen.

I don’t think you guys understand the point I was making. Long ago ships could be fit and used in a variety of ways. However over the years CCP has been pigeonholing various ships to be specifically used in a certain way with a specific fit.

Their first Ship Tiericide changed all racial Frigates to be used and fit for a specific role. Later they changed racial Industrial ships to haul a specific type of cargo, Then they re-worked all Command Ships, later they changed Ore ships, etc, etc.

Lets just say that dual MWD nano Ravens that flew faster than interceptors and even faster than their own cruise missiles were a broken thing of a past…

You can say whatever you want, I don’t care at all…

Still doesn’t deny the fact that CCP has been pigeonholing ships to be fit a certain way and used for a specific role.

You know this game has alts, right?

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What’s an alt?
You’re an alt.
No way ■■■■ you maaaaaaaan…

@Brun_Warbear always says he’s a carebear throughout the forums but I’m not inclined to believe him based on his posts :rofl:

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He also picked an example to retort with that has zero bearing on the point I made about rolling ships. Instead running on about how strong whatever frigate is and how his changes don’t make them overpowered. I never claimed they did.

Not sure how that helps me roll a hole in a higged heavy dictor, though.

Just some ad hominem and a red herring.

¯\(ツ)

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Categorically incomplete is the correct response. That’s because it’s an untested idea, and not because it’s something you don’t like that came from a horse. Until it’s tested such claims cannot be correct. Only presumed. There is no basis for the comparison.

You’re not stupid. You’re clever, but full of very sophisticated, very well calibrated opinion. However, opinion - lovely as it is, is not fact. The fact is, you are ignorant if you don’t care - that’s how the meaning of those words work. That’s fine. Ignorance resides in everyone to some extent. I routinely ignore things I don’t like all the time if they are of less importance. I don’t like having my mind wrapped up in the vapid minutia of the world every second of every day. But if I care about something enough to look in to it or make claim about it, you can be certain that if you have the time to respond with out fact and evidence and provide opinion only, I’ll remind you of it endlessly until you redact your statement, or offer up some legitimate factual evidence upon which your statement is made.

And as I’ve just said, support your claim with EVIDENCE! Provide your credentials or stop waving around the fantasy leverage, because it clearly illustrates that you have no argument. It also highlights how enthusiastic you are, which may not be as good a thing as you might think…

The sheer level of sophistry in your responses thus far has been highly illuminating. There is a distinct Eu de Troll present. If you are not a troll and in fact feel that you are using appropriate forms of debate on an internet forum… you should take a step back and think about that for a second.

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Someone already reminded you that you are in fact pidgeonholed already… Thank CCP =)

Presumably you’re addressing us both, but I’m not sure so I’ll just say this.

Proper conduct only ever benefited a human being. Devolving ones conduct to address something or someone frustrating, online or off, only ever served to denigrate ones-self. It isn’t a conduct I approve of, and have worked hard in my life to grow beyond.

Certainly he’s being antagonistic. It’s a tactic resorted to when a person cannot retain a valid position in an argument. I see this, as I see you see this. The proper course of action is to simply defend my position, regardless of how antagonistic he and his friends become. It is not a matter of social consideration.

Thank you though - I know what you mean.

You presume incorrectly.

Players - multiple of them - have come into this thread to say what problems they see with your suggestion. Instead of addressing their comments with counter points, you have consistently attacked their right to make those arguments.

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Brun,

The point of this discussion was to examine the idea through the working example of the fit, and supporting data provided. It wasn’t to examine every single case in a single post. I might write a book someday about it, if it proves to be worth the time and effort, but for now, it’s a discussion.

And if you’re killboard is embarrassing to you, perhaps rejoin the discussion on one of your characters that can provide you with a little better credibility. Maybe that will provide you with the emotional stability you need to engage in legitimate discourse on the subject, and keep your discomfort to a minimum.

Cheers,

I remember hearing a few Raven pilots talking about this. Crazy stuff…

It’s true, that this hull wouldn’t retain all of this kind of flexibility under the proposed paradigm. There may be more such instances, and that is the kind of thing I’m trying to explore and understand. =) We’re a long way from done with fleshing out the idea and it’s impact.

Actually its a pretty dry cut: you either give too little and some fits/formats cease to work or you give too much to the point that CPU/PG restriction might as well be abolished as a whole (exaggeration).

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