A stationary target isn’t going to be dodging anything, so its signature radius doesn’t matter for avoiding damage. A stationary (as opposed to merely webbed) frigate is easy prey for even a battleship, especially if said battleship is moving straight to it. Signature radius does matter when it comes to getting a lock.
A ship that will often end up stationary while firing in combat are Dreadnaught class ships. With the siege module active, this will enable them to do a huge amount of extra damage, immunity to ECM, near immunity to sensor damps, huge bonuses to repairs, and in exchange it can’t move and basically turns into a giant turret.
Given that a dreadnaught is going to be stationary when it is in combat and very few ships would have trouble locking onto a Dreadnaught, it seems signature radius isn’t relevant and a booster like X-Instinct (makes sig radius smaller) is useless. Since every subcapital ship pretty much has no reason to be stationary in combat, it seems the only ship that would want to be stationary in combat doesn’t care about its signature radius. Am I correct?
I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to get at, but it is my understanding that sig radius will have no impact on damage mitigation if you are standing completely still. However, it will still affect lock times, and how difficult it is to scan you down with combat probes. For example, until very recently, marauders fit with a scripted Sebo were very difficult to combat probe because of their high sensor strength to sig radius ratio. But then CCP changed the sensor strength bonus from 1000% to 100%. So now they can be scanned down without needing perfect skills, scanning implants, and bonused ship.
And now for some corrections:
First, there are times when subcaps will sit still. For example, I’ll sometimes post up near spawn points in PvE. I do this when:
All the rat’s default orbit range is within my optimal and EWAR range
I have sufficient spank and tank, that I don’t need speed/sig for damage mitigation
I don’t have any other reason to move (such as making my way to a gate)
For example, I used to use Ikitursa for Emerging Conduits. I would warp to an asteroid along the back belt at 70km (iirc), which would put me pretty darn close to the spawn point. I’d then sit there for the rest of the site as all the rats flew right into my preferred fighting range.
Additionally, marauders will also be immobilized by their bastion module, and dreads will often intentionally drift (they don’t automatically stop moving, but gradually slow down).
from your not that great attempt to explain transversal, I’m guessing you are not too familiar with turret tracking mechanics yet. No worries, some people have and are still playing this game for years and are completely fine without knowing the fine print.
But since you asked:
Oh yes, your signature matters when you are getting shot at. Always.
Signature radius also matters for damage from missiles or bombs that have an explosion radius. A ship with a signature radius smaller than the explosion radius will take less damage, even if it is sitting completely still.
(When I came back from my 10-year hiatus, one of the first questions I had was “where are the turret attributes for signature resolution?” because this old page was how I remembered computing the chance to hit – which directly involved signature radius of gun & ship. Today it is simply more “hidden”.)
@Nora_Maldoran is right in the general case, but do note though @TiberianSun371AlexW for your specific situation: “frigate isn’t moving and battleship moving directly towards it”, that the angular velocity/transversal speed portion of the equation will be zero which is a no-tracking scenario. That zero swallows the signature radius portion of that equation as well to also have it effectively go away, so under a no-tracking-involved scenario, guns don’t care about target ship signature radius, only optimal/falloff matters. You could be shooting at a drone or a titan. However, to also be clear about your “especially” comment, there is nothing “special” about a battleship moving towards the frigate versus the battleship sitting put itself, except perhaps to influence the optimal/falloff portion. This phenomenon is why, when you’re in a smaller ship, you want to spiral in to a target with larger guns and avoid flying directly at it, and always be making use of that smaller sig radius.
In contrast, the missile damage equation for a stationary target always resorts to a factor that is either 1 or “signature radius over explosion radius” ratio – whichever is minimum. So a target sitting still and taking missile damage still does have signature radius at play, up to a certain point.
For turrets with no teansversal signature has no effect.
For missiles signature always has an effect and is the dominant application factor. It is possible to apply full damage to a quick target if your explosion radius is significantly smaller than their signature. However if you have a large explosion radius you’re going to be losing a lot of damage even if your explosion velocity is infinitely higher than the targets velocity.
I don’t think anyone worries much about the sig radius of their dreadnaught, if that’s what you’re asking. I don’t think anyone worries much about the possibility they might not be able to hit a dreadnaught, either.
Also, I don’t get this focus on velocity. Movement is relative. The formula for to hit only cares about angular velocity relative to you. So unless both of you are at a dead stop or headed directly at or away from each other, there’s going to be an angular velocity reducing your chances to hit. If you’re moving directly at or away then there would be no angular velocity reducing your chance to hit even if you’re moving at very high speeds.
TL;DR
Signature radius can reduce incoming damage even if you sit perfectly still if the opponent is moving in any direction except directly to or away from you. If your virtual turret would have to rotate in any way to keep the shot lined up, signature radius matters.
@TiberianSun371AlexW Buildings don’t move. But a huge barn is easier to hit compared to a tiny doll house. Their size make a difference. Easier to hit bigger things even when they are standing still.
Eve simulates the same effect by using signature radius (think size… although technically not exactly the same as size) Signature radius is part of damage calculations for missiles and gun turrets.
Dreadnoughts and capitals are so huge that as some people have said nobody cares about the figures because almost everything will hit for max damage. Dreadnoughts have around 11,000m signature radius. Hehe
But for smaller ships their signature size and the booster you mentioned is useful -
Smaller signature reduces the chance of getting hit with guns. Even if the target is stationary, as long as the attacker is moving around so that angular velocity is not 0.
Smaller signature reduces missile damage even on a stationary target. (if missile explosion radius is larger)
Smaller signature radius reduces the damage taken from bombs even on stationary targets. (if you radius is below 400m I think)
Smaller signature means it takes longer to target lock you, which might give you a tiny fraction of time longer to try and run or activate hardeners, module etc. (depends on attacker’s sensors and how quick he locks you, because if it is too quick, the time difference you get from a small sig radius is negligible and not useful in this case)
You mean, they should have painted red targets on the airport during WW ?
hit&miss is both from the shooter and the shoottee. During WW the hit ratio from plane bombs was like 1/100 against tanks - which were basically standing still. If they were bigger, they had more chance to be hit. Same for torpedoes and that’s why battleships are no more (torpedoes are bombs in eve)
Use the same distance and turrets stats. Change the target size and see the hit chance jump up and down.
If the target is standing still only the Tracking attribute is ignored. As long as there is non-zero transversal the hit chance always applies …if the attacker orbits or moves at an ‘angle’ there will be transversal, irrespective if the target is stationary.
And as long as there is transversal Eve will calculate a higher hit chance for bigger signature radius. Remember it is CCP that designed the formula. Players in Eve have just reverse-engineered it as best and close as they can.
You added the “relative” in your new comment. That word makes all the difference. And yes, with the new statement I agree totally - if there is 0 relative movement (0 transversal) then sig radius is ignored. I’m not disputing that.
Most of us are just saying signature radius is important, and is used in damage and hit calculation, when there is any transversal caused either by target or attacker.
Oh I know that, I just kind of assumed the only stationary ship would be capitals (which wasn’t quite correct), therefore the only stationary things on the grid don’t care about signature radius.
With the huge size of capitals yes definitely, most times they don’t care because they are so incredibly massive.
(Just keep in mind the XL missiles also have big explosion radius. Fury XL cruise has base explo radius of 10km, and Rage XL torpedoes has 17km base explo radius. While Dread have approx 11km sig base. So reducing the signature still helps if your attackers are shooting lots and lots of XL missiles…and you know the Caldari guys love their missiles )
So did I. Until I started flying logistics and watched half a fleet get blapped by rails while the smooth brains screamed about how we needed to warp out rather than moving their ships to mitigate the damage.
