Small Class Upwell Structures to help small Corps

[Solonius_Rex]

@Elena_Laskova

The point isn’t whether the goal is achievable buy some new player, but whether most new players who see it as an aspirational goal would can see a way to achieve it.

This is completely useless and meaningless.

A new enough player may see 100 million isk as an unattainable goal.

And thats the point. New players dont know any better, because they are new. Unless its dirt cheap, There will always be a player who is so new and so uninformed that they may see even a 100 million isk structure as beyond their reach forever.

And if this is true, then what you said is meaningless.

@Elena_Laskova

My comments (in my earlier post) don’t exaggerate at all. “Back in the day” (8 to 10 years ago IIRC) even the most indirect reference to “progression” caused a group attack. The first time it happened to me I ran some tests, and verified it was a part of the “bittervet narrative” of that era.

I find that doubtful, because ive been on the forums for 6 years now, almost non-stop, and skillpoint progression has always existed. No Veteran will be stupid enough to claim that it doesnt exist. The only pushback you will get is when someone claims that skillpoints are an indication of whether youre a good player or not.

So I guess, context matters in the discussion. But simply mentioning progression, or WoW, isnt enough to get pushback from vets.

@Elena_Laskova

My current observations: bittervets collectively are still strongly against improving EVE’s startup process. They’d still rather consume new players for laughs than see the game start growing again.

Absolutely not, and again, context matters.

Almost, if not all vets are all for a revamp of the new player experience, to make it better, to explain things better, and so forth.

What most Vets are against, are coddling new players. Making the game easier, safer, so that EVE appeals to a more broader player base. And even then, only up to a point.

@Elena_Laskova

It’s not as though vets as a group are receptive to using the player introduction techniques every other MMO uses. No matter how tactfully presented, or by whom, such suggestions seem to strike a sore point, because they immediately become the target of a campaign to get the thread locked.

Extended New Player Experience

Reasoning behind this: I am not overly familiar with the current tutorial and New Player Experience (NPE) but i have the impression that it does a great job for what it’s set up to do. I think at the moment the focus is entirely on teaching basic ship commands like warp, orbit, fire,… and then sends the new players on the way to run missions or other PVE activities and that is totally appropriate. I believe however that EVE is a hardcore PVP game with a big social aspect at its core. So in this…

No ones been calling for this thread to be locked.

I think youre confusing valid criticism, with attempts to get the thread locked. Just because someone explains why your idea is terrible, doesnt mean they want the thread to lock.

@Elena_Laskova

But the acceptance of WoW as an example of a successful game is an interesting puzzle

By almost all metrics, WoW is a successful game. Do you have any reason to believe it isnt?